ohmelads

I think Liverpool will go the season unbeaten, but not in the way Arsenal did. Virtually every time they've been in danger this season, the VAR has come to their rescue. Look at all their toughest, closest games this season and the controversial decisions that have gone their way in each of them. At times they've been amazing, and they are a great side, but they've also been poor in quite a few games and could and should have drawn or lost them. Today is just another to the list and they've thoroughly earned the name Li-Var-pool. Is the game bent? I don't know. We know that FIFA are (Qatar etc). The fact is some of the richest people in the world are involved in football now. We only know what we see on the pitch and it's dodgy.

May as well just wrap up the title now.

I can't see any foul on Mane but proving a 'clear and obvious error' is difficult in these situations. Contact is perfectly allowed but if there's any contact at all, however harmless, they will say it's not a clear and obvious error by the referee. I had hoped that VAR would clamp down on diving but for strikers it's still worth going to ground under any contact.

Not for offsides it isn’t. I think if you're guessing then you should let the goal stand. Given the camera angle, camera distortion and the extremely fine margins, there's no way they can definitively call that offside.

VAR is supposed to be used for "clear and obvious" errors. Given the awkward angle, they've taken a punt that he's offside and ruled it out. It's a misuse of VAR.

Ashley will sell when the money dries up, which means consecutive seasons outside of the Prem. The sooner that happens, the sooner we get our club back and try to start again. I don't see any other way.

He's made things difficult for himself. Not only couldn't care less about everything that's gone on over 12 years but supports it. I'm not surprised to find out that a player who doesn't support the club just wants his sizeable cut and doesn't lose sleep over the way it's run, but he's made his priorities publicly clear.

If I was getting paid 50 grand a week, I'd probably think like Ritchie too. I wouldn't care who the owner is. But I also wouldn't be stupid enough to criticise fans who have the long term future of their club in mind.

I get that point but my opinion is while I consider it unlikely he'd sell in the short to medium term while in the prem I consider the chances of him selling outside the prem to be basically zero. I see it the other way around. While the club is in the Premier League, he gets free global exposure for his main business. In the Championship he has to put money in to try and get back to that, with comparatively very little exposure. I think a failed promotion bid or even relegation to league one would see him sell because he'd no longer be milking a cash cow and would have to invest in it with unknown returns. I actually see that as the only circumstance in which he'll sell.

Argies crying foul play over the Brazil result. To be honest, despite the hyperbole, it does look dodgy and it is worrying to see VAR (mis)used like this. Brazil are the hosts and their president did a "lap of honour" at half time. Not the kind of game you want to be losing to Argentina. The one on Otamendi is so obvious that there's no excuse now with the tech. The TV cameras caught it no problem. The other one resulted in an immediate goal on the counter, and surely has to be reviewed. To not even review either does sound like something went on.

By all accounts he’s a well grounded down to earth kid. I rate him, but all ego and self confidence aside I’d be thinking let’s get in 2 years of first team football at Newcastle, become the main man, get some injury free consistency, get into the England squad and get a cap even, and develop nicely under a less pressurised environment and then move. It’s all up to him of course, but a move to Man Utd is just as or more likely to curtail his development and experience than enhance it right now. Look at Jordan Henderson and Carrick for example. It’s not as if Man Utd are going to fast track him towards silverware or playing in a top team, even if they were at that level which they aren’t. If he does move, hopefully he gets into the team, plays every week and becomes a top player with success coming his way. He's more talented than Henderson IMO, but very raw. Anything less than 25m would be a joke, still it all goes into the club’s pockets so anything that gives Rafa... oh wait! I'd say he'd have more chance of getting in the England squad as a bit-part Man Utd player than a Newcastle first-teamer. Also debatable that a relegation battle at a club almost constantly in chaos with talk of boycotts and potential protests throughout the season is a less pressurised environment.

If the situation with Ashley makes fans turn on other fans, then that's the saddest thing of all. Go or don't go but do what you want. He doesn't care. Some refuse to stop going because they see that as giving in to Ashley. They don't believe for a second he intends to sell the club. Why should they stop doing what they've always done because of him? I respect that. Some are older and might not have many years left to go to football games. Some have never had the chance before. All kinds of people go to a game. I believe a boycott is the only option for the majority but I can't disrespect those who do go. I believe in a boycott because we're a club with no sporting purpose. Everyone knows the goal is 17th next year and our 5 year plan is 17th. Our 10 year plan is 17th. The club purely exists to provide a free advertising vehicle for sports direct on a global stage. Any extra revenue that can be siphoned out of the club is being done so by effectively asset stripping (selling club land for student flats) or player sales. A third relegation is eventually inevitable. While there are even worse owners than Ashley, I'm willing to roll the dice because what faces us is guaranteed pointlessness and, given his age and clear reluctance to sell, it could go on for a very long time.

Gutted and angry but not surprised. Rafa stayed through relegation when he didn't have to so I doubt he was asking for the world. Just evidence of any sporting purpose to the club beyond surviving on the Premier League gravy train as a huge billboard for Sports Direct. Ashley isn't a willing seller and I've always felt that only one of two scenarios will convince him to leave. One is a massive offer that he can't refuse, and the other is the club sinking so low that he cuts his losses. Unfortunately, and I really hope I'm wrong, the latter seems more likely. A mass boycott is long long overdue. There'll be those fans who will keep saying that we're in a tight battle and the team needs a 12th man to scrape another survival, but where does that argument end? If we do go down, then it's a possible tight promotion scrap and on it goes. Are we just trying to keep our heads above water until someone comes with a fat cheque for Ashley? It could be another 12 years. Something has to change.

Looked to me like Cavani kicked the defender's studs and went down in pain. Maybe they're arguing dangerous play with a high foot but never a pen for me.

Yeah, Bale comparisons are ridiculous. It was a good run, but some of the overreactions here are just absurd. I knew the Cult of Miggy was very powerful - guess I won’t comment on him at all... Seems I should have made this more obvious but I wasn't actually comparing him to Bale as a footballer. My point was when a top player does that (Bale is a random example, since he's a star in a weaker international side and made those trademark massive runs) then people celebrate the outcome - ie running from his own half past two players and putting it on a plate - rather than nitpicking and finding moments where he might've got lucky in the buildup.

Gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed given the thread retitling - there’s a sense when he’s dribbling the fast that he’s not really in control. His last touch before the cross was too heavy because of this, and the cross itself seemed a bit hit-and-hope. He's taken the ball from the middle of his own half and ran 60 yards past two players and put it on the penalty spot for a goal. Against Argentina. For Paraguay. If that was Bale for Wales for example, people would be going mental. Erm..... Haha yeah. That bit's debatable!

Gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed given the thread retitling - there’s a sense when he’s dribbling the fast that he’s not really in control. His last touch before the cross was too heavy because of this, and the cross itself seemed a bit hit-and-hope. He's taken the ball from the middle of his own half and ran 60 yards past two players and put it on the penalty spot for a goal. Against Argentina. For Paraguay. If that was Bale for Wales for example, people would be going mental.

Well, VAR might work in our favour against Watford or someone. If that happens, it's a positive for us. With regards to the more powerful clubs though, there's more money than ever in the game now and I don't see VAR changing the balance of decision-making. It's not a conspiracy where VAR/refs set out to ensure one side win but simply people's decision-making being affected by massive pressure. Like anyone else, match officials want a successful career and they don't make decisions in a vacuum. If they get the big calls wrong against the top 6, they find their name in the headlines the next day. Fergie, at the end of his career, admitted that this is a big part of the game. He once complained about Chris Foy not giving them penalties in a game they lost against Spurs. The following week, Foy found himself reffing an Accrington Stanley game three divisions down in League Two. We're seeing similar pressure on refs now from Klopp. Yet you look at Cardiff last season and they suffered some incredible decisions but people just laughed when Warnock went mental about it. I don't see VAR changing this aspect of the sport because the money at stake is so huge now. Said it before but the world cup final was a perfect example.

I like the idea of VAR. We've got a great game administered by corrupt organisations and poor officials. The problem is VAR is administered by the same corrupt organisations and poor officials. With regards to Newcastle, let's wait and see. This could go either way.

The pen was the wrong decision and spoiled what could have been a good open game. Both teams were turd. Liverpool just sat back launching hopeful long balls. Spurs weren't much better. I'd have preferred Spurs because now we have to suffer all the plastic fans everywhere and all the Liverpool-biased media. Over the course of the season though, Liverpool deserve a trophy far more than Spurs do.

True but he was arguably the best player on the pitch for several of those games. McTominay was arguably the best player on the pitch against Barcelona (first game) and definitely the best player on the pitch against PSG yet people on here are suggesting Longstaff is better. Too early to compare Longstaff to other youngsters because he hasn't played enough games and they play at opposite ends of the table, but he deserves the praise he's getting. Made his first competitive games in a struggling side that had won only 1 of its last 6 (against Huddersfield) and faced a tough run including Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Wolves. During what should have been the toughest part of our season, he played a major part in turning the season around. Big season for him next year. Hope he comes back stronger from his injury.

Fucking hell that’s sad, urgh. Liverpool winning the league sends out a message to your on club they too can win the league without being bankrolled by a terrorist state. If that’s what makes you feel your own club not winning the league more bearable though hey, that’s what it’s all about no... Sorry, but I just don’t get this kind of rationalising! Let's not pretend that Liverpool haven't spent ridiculous money in order to compete too like; their squad cost about £550 million - that's hardly a message of hope to the rest of the league they're no underdog story like Leicester so Man City's spending becomes significantly less relevant in terms of deciding who you want to win it Yup. And fair play to them but they're no fucking underdogs man. As if the likes of Solanke and Ings were worth anywhere neat the money they got for them. Their transfer love-in with Southampton and Bournemouth is dodgy as fuck IMO. Still can't make any sense of those deals. Not like those clubs are swimming in cash. It does look dodgy but can't explain what would be in it for Southampton/Bournemouth to do those deals.

Liverpool have far more insufferable plastic fans than Man City and the media is full of ex-Liverpool players. Owen, McManaman, Souness, Lawrenson, Murphy etc etc etc. Guardiola has generally been respectful of opponents in press conferences and I find him to be a much more likeable manager than Klopp. There's also the diving antics of players like Salah, Mane and Fabinho. And as someone else mentioned, City winning the league is basically meaningless and there won't be all the hype from pro-Liverpool media. All reasons why I think many would rather City. Leicester winning it was brilliant for the neutrals because it means that other midtable clubs could dream of a one-off miracle season and they showed it isn't impossible. Liverpool's are one of the richest clubs in the world so it's a completely different situation. They're a fantastic team and credit to Klopp and their scouting team who consistently buy and sell well, but Klopp's attitude towards opponents, their diving players and the plastic fans put a lot of people off. Having lived in Liverpool, I can say that genuine Liverpool fans are usually decent craic just like genuine fans of any other club, but all over the country and the world you tend to meet a lot of Liverpool/Man Utd fans who know little about the game. City winning would be easier to ignore.

Jesus. Pundits in contributing to the problem shocker. It'll only get worse when a bunch of morons are given a major platform to be morons. With VAR coming in, it could end up going the way of every single foul being checked, maybe rightfully so as well considering how bad diving is getting. The referee should at the very least be fed information on it. Make diving (if confirmed by VAR or if the ref is 100% certain) a straight red card. If they want to stamp it out then they should start taking a no nonsense policy. Players learn that they're becoming a liability by diving. Unfortunately this won't happen, the powers that be don't want a fair competition, they want a product they can market. We all know that the Fabinho dive would be given as a free kick still with VAR, we all know we will still be denied stonewall penalties at will too. The big problem with VAR is it still relies on a referee to make a decision, with all their biases. VAR is open to abuse, and abuse it will suffer no doubt. Largely agree with this up to a point. Dives for free kicks probably won't be reviewed and it'll be the same refs making the decisions. The linesman/ref had a clear view of the Fabinho/Rondon incidents and still made bizarre/unfair calls. I'm just hoping they'll have to give blatant penalties and deny blatant dives for penalties. Even that'd be an improvement. We'll still get screwed on ones like the tackle on Almiron.

Fair enough but that of course means that diving outside the box won't change at all next season. VAR's been a mixed bag but has been very well used in some games. What's frustrating is that all these replays haven't been used to retrospectively punish divers with bans. The Premier League for example set up a diving panel and have basically done nothing with it despite so many clear cut cases.