BottledDog

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind. There ya go lol. But the how easy would it have been to avoid the total silence? Its so unavoidable, it says so much they cant be arsed to just simply come in front of a camera and talk to the fans, its disgraceful treatment, and if they really cared they'd at least get that right. I totally agree, communication since things went tits up has been dreadful, but then (and I'm not defending them here, just trying to work it out) whatever they said (or might have said) post Keegan was either dismissed or classed as lies. And to be fair, there is not a lot they could say that would have be taken seriously during the period when we were up for sale and could have had a new lot in at any moment. However, it is a different matter now that we are off the market, and while they might still be a little wary, i'm surprised the club has not gone on a bit of a media blitz to get people back on board. They have said they will get back to us after the transfer window has closed. Fine. But preferably they should be feeding us reasurances and keeping us in touch all the time now because any one off press releases (with, as you picked up on, the usual statements about driving the club forward without expanding on just how we might do that) are going to be disected to hell with little sympathy from many. That's not what they need to get the pie boycotters back on board.

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind.

I don't think for one minute the club want's to sell Given.

have you read the figures?? how can ashley take a dividend when he is financing the running of the club at the moment??? company directors take dividends out of loss making companies all the time. Haven’t you seen the news recently? yes public company where they don't use there own money at all to buy the club etc the figures show ashley is keeping the club alive with his own cash, so why would he take money out then He hasn’t put any money in, he’s lent the club £100m. His own money. 70 for the debt, and 30 to keep the club going (plus another £10 million on top in June according to the OP). Ashley bought the club without checking the books and got well and truly shafted. If he hadn’t paid off the outstanding creditors he could have seen his £135m investment go down the pan. Yet your lauding him to the high heavens for saving his own skin and asking us to pay for it. Last years accounts count for s*** anyway. It’s next years accounts that will show if you’re blind faith in Ashley is warranted or sorely misguided. My money would be on the latter as losing lots of customers very rapidly tends to do bad things to the balance sheet. Get a grip, I don't see anyone here with blind faith in him or lauding him to the high heavens for fucks sake. He deserves criticism, His nieve managerial choices, and his poor communication have been massively dissapointing. If he fucked off and sold to someone willing to pump absurd amounts of money into the club with no long term damage i'd be delighted. However, it is also reasonable surely (rather than to just dismiss the accounts as you suggest) to take on board that the club was in a fucking dreadful situation and Ashley actions and continuing actions have at least stopped the rot to some degree. His decisions to put more emphasis on scouting and youth and not being held to ransom over inflated contract demands are sensible considering the climate. People were demanding to know where his £20 million a year investment was in simple term of incoming transfers, well now we know that the extra money was being put in but only just covers running costs. Ashley recognised this and was actively courting local businessmen to join him. If he had managed to secure that further local investment, we might have been in a much stronger position to get in the players Keegan wanted. Sadly that didn't work out. I'm scared shitless over where we are heading under his stewardship this season, but I recognise the problems we have and I don't see any benefit in sticking the boot in at every opportunity as some seem to be doing.

have you read the figures?? how can ashley take a dividend when he is financing the running of the club at the moment??? company directors take dividends out of loss making companies all the time. Haven’t you seen the news recently? yes public company where they don't use there own money at all to buy the club etc the figures show ashley is keeping the club alive with his own cash, so why would he take money out then He hasn’t put any money in, he’s lent the club £100m. His own money. 70 for the debt, and 30 to keep the club going (plus another £10 million on top in June according to the OP).

Ya what?

True, which is presumably why he was actively and publicly looking for an injection of local investment so that beyond that solid structure we could occasionally splash out on Keegan style purchases. Sadly nobody seemed to want in (or indeed take the whole concern of his hands more recently).

Eh? We knew about the debt and I don't think it makes a jot of difference. The only important thing is the repayments were reduced/stopped. As for that tidy profit, can you explain that a bit more. I'm confused as to how we are looking at any sort of profit here?

Thanks for that quayside. No wonder the old lot were so desperate to sell, the gamble with the debts had failed and they were fucked. He seems willing to plough the extra money in but all that is doing is keeping our head above water even after reducing the repayments. Clearly Ashley, before the Keegan thing kicked off, was not just joking in the media that if anyone had a few billion spare he would welcome them to join him in the venture. While investing in youth was the sensible way to keep the club on a steady footing, he was deadly serious about the need for further investment if we had any chance of getting the players in needed to move back up the league.

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May. If the debts have been paid off then we won't have the same overheads, considering those debts were costing us around £8 million a year (can't remember the exact amount). Plus Premiership TV money has gone up by £20 million a season since then. The 2008 accounts have just been filed (today), and I'm looking at them now. There's obviously a lot to take in. The club made a loss of £20.3 million before tax, although turnover was up for the reason you refer to. Ashley stuck a loan of £100 million in, of which about £70 million was to pay off the old debt, the remaining £30 million was to fund working capital of the club basically. It cost £4.6 millionto get rid of Allardyce and co, and the in the final note it says Keegan resigned and it makes no reference to any compensation. Are you allowed to tell us this? Yes - the information is in the public domain. Every UK company must file accounts at Companies House. Anyone can access those accounts on the Companies House website for a fee of £1 per company. All this stuff you hear about not knowing what the finances are because the club isn't public is rubbish. Its easily available, you just have to wait for the accounts to be filed. As I said the accounts for the year to 30th June 2008 are now available for anyone to download. Any chance of a rundown of the important bits if you have time? Would be interesting to see. /Might be worth a new thread. OK - will try and do it later, very busy right now. No worries. Cheers.

In one of the statements released by the club, they said something like 'club was still hemorrhaging money' or something along those lines, so are all the debts gone? I think the debt still exists its just owed to Ashley instead of a bank, probably with no interest attached (which is exactly what Roman did at Chelsea). The club may well be haemorrhaging money. We lost £12 million in the year to July 2007 and in that year we had European football and good attendances. Not much has changed to the cost base since then. Same overheads, same high wages etc. But the income is probably down since then so a loss is likely. And the only person who can fund that loss is Ashley. In answer to the thread - No. He's a chancer who hit the jackpot when he floated a dodgy chain of sports shops and thought it would be the ultimate toy to own a Premiership club. He had no idea what he was buying, didn't understand the importance of the club to the city of Newcastle, underestimated the ability of the fans to see through bullsh1t and he hasn't got a clue how to run it. Our best bet is somehow we survive and he finds a buyer in May. If the debts have been paid off then we won't have the same overheads, considering those debts were costing us around £8 million a year (can't remember the exact amount). Plus Premiership TV money has gone up by £20 million a season since then. The 2008 accounts have just been filed (today), and I'm looking at them now. There's obviously a lot to take in. The club made a loss of £20.3 million before tax, although turnover was up for the reason you refer to. Ashley stuck a loan of £100 million in, of which about £70 million was to pay off the old debt, the remaining £30 million was to fund working capital of the club basically. It cost £4.6 millionto get rid of Allardyce and co, and the in the final note it says Keegan resigned and it makes no reference to any compensation. Are you allowed to tell us this? Yes - the information is in the public domain. Every UK company must file accounts at Companies House. Anyone can access those accounts on the Companies House website for a fee of £1 per company. All this stuff you hear about not knowing what the finances are because the club isn't public is rubbish. Its easily available, you just have to wait for the accounts to be filed. As I said the accounts for the year to 30th June 2008 are now available for anyone to download. Any chance of a rundown of the important bits if you have time? Would be interesting to see. /Might be worth a new thread.

aye nixon, who would want a 1st 3rd 6th 2nd, or 2nd, league finish these days, its s*** isnt it. How long ago was that? why , does it preceed you jumping on the toon bandwagon? Mate the reason I say that is because by his own admission he'd not seen a game for 3 years, you think its wise to give someone like that millions of pounds? Come on man, be sensible. he had been out of the game 8 years in 1992, the bloke was european footballer of the year twice, his record of buys was excellent, England capatain, liverpool captain,newcastle captain, league champion, european champion,,... you dont forget in three years man, be sensible. my point is, he has an eye for a player, he dosent lose this in 3 years, open your eyes, see what is happening without him. Has an eye for a player? Not recently. His record for buying players at Man City was absolutely toss. so man city would have preffered not to get promoted by him, cos he bought s*** players, and they would rather be in a lower division, with someone buying better players,. ..lolol Lolol? Why are you changing your arguement? His record in terms of spending there was laughable and they were simply not progressing. If anything all you are doing is making the case for the people you are arguing with. I'm sure Man city fans were grateful for what he did in terms of getting them up but that doesn't absolve him of criticism, just as many Newcastle supporters can look back at his past with fondness but were wary of his return, and do not see him as automatically blameless in in the events leading to our current plight. Ok then show me what he spent for man city. I think he was only there 3 seasons. Not progressing, surely staying in the prem was way better then being a yo yo club. Covered his spending in this post to a degree. -> http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,58540.msg1606066.html#msg1606066 I love what Keegan has done for the club, and it kills me that it has ended in the way it has, but not everyone was jumping for joy when he returned a year ago and rightly so. Asley was playing with fire bringing him back.

aye nixon, who would want a 1st 3rd 6th 2nd, or 2nd, league finish these days, its s*** isnt it. How long ago was that? why , does it preceed you jumping on the toon bandwagon? Mate the reason I say that is because by his own admission he'd not seen a game for 3 years, you think its wise to give someone like that millions of pounds? Come on man, be sensible. he had been out of the game 8 years in 1992, the bloke was european footballer of the year twice, his record of buys was excellent, England capatain, liverpool captain,newcastle captain, league champion, european champion,,... you dont forget in three years man, be sensible. my point is, he has an eye for a player, he dosent lose this in 3 years, open your eyes, see what is happening without him. Has an eye for a player? Not recently. His record for buying players at Man City was absolutely toss. so man city would have preffered not to get promoted by him, cos he bought shit players, and they would rather be in a lower division, with someone buying better players,. ..lolol Lolol? Why are you changing your arguement? His record in terms of spending there was laughable and they were simply not progressing. If anything all you are doing is making the case for the people you are arguing with. I'm sure Man city fans were grateful for what he did in terms of getting them up but that doesn't absolve him of criticism, just as many Newcastle supporters can look back at his past with fondness but were wary of his return, and do not see him as automatically blameless in in the events leading to our current plight. well bottle dog, stick around, you may soon find out what its like to get promoted and still criticise the manager....if were lucky. I have no idea how old you are and have no interest in it, but you are going down an idiotic path if you are insinuating i was not around well before Keegans first stint of managing the club.

aye nixon, who would want a 1st 3rd 6th 2nd, or 2nd, league finish these days, its s*** isnt it. How long ago was that? why , does it preceed you jumping on the toon bandwagon? Mate the reason I say that is because by his own admission he'd not seen a game for 3 years, you think its wise to give someone like that millions of pounds? Come on man, be sensible. he had been out of the game 8 years in 1992, the bloke was european footballer of the year twice, his record of buys was excellent, England capatain, liverpool captain,newcastle captain, league champion, european champion,,... you dont forget in three years man, be sensible. my point is, he has an eye for a player, he dosent lose this in 3 years, open your eyes, see what is happening without him. Has an eye for a player? Not recently. His record for buying players at Man City was absolutely toss. so man city would have preffered not to get promoted by him, cos he bought shit players, and they would rather be in a lower division, with someone buying better players,. ..lolol Lolol? Why are you changing your arguement? His record in terms of spending there was laughable and they were simply not progressing. If anything all you are doing is making the case for the people you are arguing with. I'm sure Man city fans were grateful for what he did in terms of getting them up but that doesn't absolve him of criticism, just as many Newcastle supporters can look back at his past with fondness but were wary of his return, and do not see him as automatically blameless in in the events leading to our current plight.

aye nixon, who would want a 1st 3rd 6th 2nd, or 2nd, league finish these days, its s*** isnt it. How long ago was that? why , does it preceed you jumping on the toon bandwagon? Mate the reason I say that is because by his own admission he'd not seen a game for 3 years, you think its wise to give someone like that millions of pounds? Come on man, be sensible. he had been out of the game 8 years in 1992, the bloke was european footballer of the year twice, his record of buys was excellent, England capatain, liverpool captain,newcastle captain, league champion, european champion,,... you dont forget in three years man, be sensible. my point is, he has an eye for a player, he dosent lose this in 3 years, open your eyes, see what is happening without him. Has an eye for a player? Not recently (if ever unless spending big on obvious names). His record for buying players at Man City was absolutely toss.

More like £27 million at the going rates tbh.

I don't get this thinking me. Thick as mince to who and since when do fans care what others think about? I don't and nor should anyone else. We're not LFC fans who need to be loved and and respected for some strange reason, in fact I know why, to validate themselves. Another thing, I honestly doubt anyone registered a flicker of emotion regarding that banner outside of Newcastle, certainly not the cockneys I know most thought it was funny and harmless. For me the pissy whinging element of reaction to it is embarrassing, small minded and tantamount to thick as mince. The real reason why some are against it is because they don't agree with the sentiment behind it, it has fuck all to do with being embarrassed, fuck all. That's just an excuse. Embarrassed by a few words? being "embarrassed by a few words" by someone else other than yourself, is the most embarrassing thing of all, and its been going on for a few years. With some obvious people making u-turns to suit the personalities, which I've already mentioned earlier. I just feel sorry for them. Poor things. You are absolutely right, its an excuse for an agenda or because they don't agree with the sentiment behind it. Who the hell thinks Mike Ashley is doing a good job for starters ? You`ve got to be fucking joking HTT and NE5. Right explain to me how anyone owning or working for NUFC, Ashley,Wise etc have any Mafia connections or ways of doing things ? Its a useless use of a word. Its like calling an apple and orange and then stating it doesn`t make you look thick. Right now I couldn`t give a flying fuck who owns this club or who plays for it or who manages it. We have been shit for years and we will be. Speaking for myself I entered this thread because I couldn`t understand why "Cockney Mafia" was used in the first place. Ashley & Wise Out would have been the most to the point logical thing to write on your banner. Some people in this thread seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing and to me purposely missing other peoples points. Its like arguing with the misses reading this shit sometimes.

As for the your first sentence, christ. They have had weeks and months of uncertainty, a temporary manager still in the job due to no buyers, only just resigned to the fact that no new investment is forthcoming, and the sodding director of our recruitment resigning. So... Who is responsible for a) the uncertainty b) appointing a temporary manager c) the lack of funds? d) the resignation of our manager and director of recruitment due to c) above I'm looking at a certain fat man with a plan. If he continues to engineer massive fuck-ups at the club will that be a solid excuse for not investing in it for the next few years then? What has any of that got to do with the bit you have highlighted, or any of the points I was making? I wasn't excusing anyone for the state we're in, only arguing that our preperation for this window has been far (far far) from perfect. Not excuses, just reality. Do you, as HTT suggests, think we have had months and months of settled preparation? That our scouting and recruitment network has not been affected? That the winter window is as good a time as any to prise the best players away from their current clubs? Well, however we have ended up here, I don't.

As for the your first sentence, christ. They have had weeks and months of uncertainty, a temporary manager still in the job due to no buyers, only just resigned to the fact that no new investment is forthcoming, and the sodding director of our recruitment resigning. I want a source for the seconed bolded bit. As for the third bolded bit. Seriously? People don't want to sell their useful players now for similar reasons that we're up in arms over the possibility of Owen, Martins, or Given leaving. It's a fucking idiotic thing to do halfway through a season whether you need consistancy of a settled team, the squad when the going gets tough at the top, or need your best players in a relegation battle. Lighten up Francis.

The part I've highlighted tells you where they've got their information from, I think I would be right in saying that we haven't published our accounts since the takeover either. Doesn't paint a pretty picture about the financial state of the club back then but we all knew that. Exactly, that list has nothing to do with Ashley and everything to do with where Shepherd and the Halls had taken the club by spending money we had little prospect of recouping anymore. Especially considering their managerial appointments, we were just looking less and less likely to achieve the success needed. The gamble failed and they (well, at least the Halls) were desperate to bing in new money and move on. Took them an age to find a buyer unsurprisingly but at least they got someone who had the cash to be able to clear the important debts and start afresh. Now though, the chances that he is the one to put us back on the front foot and start competing near the top again is looking unlikely. He said himself that even as a billionaire on paper he needed outside investment if we were to break back into regular European football. I think the turmoil and unrealistic expectations some have in the current climate have already fatally damaged his enthusiasm for the project, but in the likely event that an insane investment team ala QPR/Man City isn't just around the corner, I hope he can be canny and go back to building us up slowly and keep up the search for local sugardaddies to help out.

This.

Bingo.

why? he's not good enough to manager of nufc in any capacity other than short term As long as he continues to get the side looking like they are playing for each other and keep picking up the points, then he'll do for me. The same goes for any manager obviously, from Keegan to Capello. He has done as well if not better than most of us could have expected. Fair play to you Joe.

In one summer we have bought a whole new heart to our defence that could last for years. /in fact a whole new back line in two summers. Top job.

Said he would still come and watch when he could iirc.