Slugsy

I assume Ashley didn't stump up an additional £70m and 'gift it' to NUFC to pay off the debts - well if he did, it is common sense that the company is worth £70m more, if he paid the £70m in cash, the value of the business per its balance sheet would automatically rise by £70m so they would not be overpaying - thats the true value of the business. What is more likely is that Ashley re-financed the debt and it still exists in the holding company St James Holding. In this scenario, Stozo you are right, they will have to pay that £70m as it is a debt of the business but it isn't a hidden amount over and above the real value - its called the business Enterprise value (the cost of the business debt free/cash free) and quite normal in leveraged buy-outs. This would be no surprise to a experienced buyer - the issue is more whether a buyer can re-finance that £70m in the current banking market or whether they in turn would have to pay it themsleves ala scenario above where Ashley paid it out of his own pocket. Thus it would only be the banking market which would make a purchaser have to pay £70m more than they would want to and that may put off some purchasers, particularly those focussed on short term returns.

Come now Dave, our system and the people in that system are brilliant - handpicked just for this situation - if they take 3 weeks it is merely part of a masterplan.

Agreed

So what you are saying is that the club is worth £235m compared to £135m before Ashley 'lent £100m' to repay the debts? Surely if you replace one debt with another the value stays at £135m. If someone comes in and offers £235m Ashley would still only really receive £135m as the £100m is his anyway Indeed - the difference between equity and enterprise value

The very thought of Ince makes me shudder

Good point - I would be astonished given the last time if Keegan accepted the job under the proviso a DOF was in charge of signings.

Ashley paid off, what £150 mil of debt? I thin kthats a pretty serious situation for starters. & Ok, we havent spent a lot, goes without saying, but we still manage to have, what looks like, the best squad we have had a few years now qouldnt you agree? I don't believe he has paid off the debt - merely shifted it into a holding company Our net spend is peanuts since he came. If he had paid off the debt - where is the cash? We have a tiny squad which has been trimmed re wage bill - where is the Sky cash, where is the season ticket cash?

That was my original point - nobody knows, its all speculative bollox

That's easy: The club's latest statements contradict their statements before the closing of the transfer window. Now we know that they lied. And we've all seen the interview with Keegan where he said the final decision to sell Milner was his. More lies? i honestly dont think the major falling out was over milner. i think it was more likely over the barton/ owen/ xisco/ gonzalez end day antics of the board We might never know for sure, but if people are accusing the board of telling lies about transfer policy then they also need to look at Keegan's part in keeping the pretense going. If the populist view is to be believed then Keegan had little or no say in transfers for 8 months, but chose to go along with it. We all know what Keegan is like and there is no way IMO that he would have stayed or stayed quiet for that length of time if he wasn't ok with the situation, and he certainly wouldn't have lied to the fans to cover for Ashley and co. if it was as bad as is being made out and he was genuinely unhappy. Errr, or how about the view Keegan came in at the end of a transfer window, was promised funds and control of transfers in the summer - the summer came and over the next couple of months it became clear to Keegan that actually he actually wasn't in control culminating in the sale of Milner, the attempted sale of Owen and the bringing in of two players that he didn't sanction which was the final straw for him? Truth or fiction? Who knows, nobody actually knows but some on here seem to have made up facts out of nothing. Read my post and it's clearly an opinion and not being passed off as fact (hence "IMO"). And based on how little we are 100% certain of in this whole situation then that's all most peoples posts are ATM. One thing we do know though, because we all saw the interview, was that Keegan said the final decision on Milners sale was his choice. So when you say "he actually wasn't in control culminating in the sale of Milner" are you essentially calling him a liar? I think he lied to keep a lid on the unrest that was going on. So yes.

That's easy: The club's latest statements contradict their statements before the closing of the transfer window. Now we know that they lied. And we've all seen the interview with Keegan where he said the final decision to sell Milner was his. More lies? i honestly dont think the major falling out was over milner. i think it was more likely over the barton/ owen/ xisco/ gonzalez end day antics of the board We might never know for sure, but if people are accusing the board of telling lies about transfer policy then they also need to look at Keegan's part in keeping the pretense going. If the populist view is to be believed then Keegan had little or no say in transfers for 8 months, but chose to go along with it. We all know what Keegan is like and there is no way IMO that he would have stayed or stayed quiet for that length of time if he wasn't ok with the situation, and he certainly wouldn't have lied to the fans to cover for Ashley and co. if it was as bad as is being made out and he was genuinely unhappy. Errr, or how about the view Keegan came in at the end of a transfer window, was promised funds and control of transfers in the summer - the summer came and over the next couple of months it became clear to Keegan that actually he actually wasn't in control culminating in the sale of Milner, the attempted sale of Owen and the bringing in of two players that he didn't sanction which was the final straw for him? Truth or fiction? Who knows, nobody actually knows but some on here seem to have made up facts out of nothing.

Apart from everything they've done since they got here? Like investing a ton of money in the academy? In revamping our scouting network? Clearing all of our debt? Please show me the facts re investment and clearing the debt. I've never seen any figures re investment in the academy, I have not seen any accounts that show the debt has been paid off, rather I have been told it has been moved into the holding company and still exists.

Because this whole situation has been blown completely out of proportion due to KK being a petulant t***, he basically refused to meet with the club to find a solution and preferred to get with his lawyers to screw as much money out of the club as possible. I'm not jumping to the defence of the board as they have clearly played a role in all of this but if keegan thought Smith was good enough and that we didn't need a new striker then he's an idiot, I'm just looking forward to them getting someone else in so we can put this whole thing behind us. Baggie if you think you are the voice of reason amongst the tidal of illinformed, KK god like can't do no wrong crap. Then you are sadly mistaken. Most if not all here accept that KK had a part to play iin this, I'm pretty sure he's not entirely blameless and he probably is trying to look out for himself in getting a package for leaving, like about 99% of us would in his position. As Niave KK may have been for taking on the role in the first place, so too was Ashley in appointing him, he's virtually un sackable, an old fashioned type manager that would find working under a DOF system very difficult if not impossible. Ashley described his appointment as a "no brainer" need I remind you, if that was the case then he surely must have had an idea what best environment KK would need to perform well, SJH (the life president) should have been able to point him in the right direction, if he'd bothered to seek his counsel. They have handled things since they blew up like a bunch of amateurs, their PR is shambolic, they just have no idea how to communicate with the fans. But worst of all they've have made the job, which should be a hugely attractive one, almost untouchable by quality managers. Great post

What a lot of sh*te - no facts or proof whatesover - I've seen some rubbish spouted on here over the last few weeks but the opening post is right up there.

Spot on Sir Bob

With each day we are more like a circus rather than football club.

So this debacle is all Keegan's fault?

Gutted

Agree with all of this

I'd rather Keegan stayed and we got rid of wise - his is a job that is easily replaceable - Keegan's isnt. I think they are trying to stitch Keegan up - bunch of scumbags to be honest.

Priceless - SSN at its best

I've been massively critical of our transfer dealings or lack of but the one thing I was pleased about was the way Keegan had us playing - I always thought as long as he is here we will be okay.

Totally agree - far too many people unwilling to face reality...the new Board have been a success in clearing debts but a failure in moving the club forward fast enough to keep pace with those behind even the top 6 ; we are a mid-table club for the foreseeable future and risk being overtaken by both the Mackems AND Boro, the latter whose Academy leaves ours standing... The table will prove who is right by January. Good post, though will reserve judgement on being taken over by the mackems - certainly the likes of Spurs and Man City.

By the time they get down the hill, the cows will have f*cked off.

Spunking massive amounts of money on dodgy signings didn't exactly guarantee Europe though did it? Alternatively we could have 'spunked' massive amounts of money on good players?

Spunking massive amounts of money on dodgy signings didn't exactly guarantee Europe though did it? Its a different league, different dynamics - you have to spend if you are going to get anywhere near Europe now, arab money, Champs League money has changed the rules and while its not a guarantee, I can guarantee while we don't match these other clubs ambitions, we will fall further behind.