Rich

Excellent point, but I still genuinely think he's atrocious. Or at least he was in the World Cup and has been in the Premiership this season. He needs to lose some weight and get his confidence back. There were times at Leeds where he was like Given is for us, and even last season he was decent for Spurs. Seems to have really lost his way due to a number of high-profile lapses. Given is miles better.

Perfect goalie for the cockney mackems tbh. He'll cost 'em 10+ goals a season, and they'll be happy with it, raving on about how he's world class.... My thoughts exactly. Just wish the fucker didn't play for Ingerland.

Did you? Bit before your time, wasn't it?

The more I see of him the more I think Paul Robinson would be the goalkeeper in this team. I hope he plays for Spurs until he retires, the amount of goals he's cost them this season is tremendous.

Why are City buying another "big" striker? Samaras? Corradi? Is there any logic behind it? Could one be leaving? Would have thought getting a pacey striker a better shout, as you seem to agree.

I know it's a canny journey to Zonhoven from Ghent, done it a few times before, but it will probably be worth it in order to spend the following day with the people we know. I'm sure they won't mind us turning up at a ridiculous time! Good to hear about the smoke!

Been to Belgium a load of times as the family has friends in Zonhoven, bar all the fucking smoke everywhere it's a cracking place to visit. If I had the cash I would definitely fancy the trip as the last time I was over there for a NUFC game it was the friendly with Anderlecht that we won 2-1, with Ginola and Asprilla netting if I remember rightly. Waiting to hear on tickets as I'll just be driving if I do go, and will have somewhere to stay.

Not sure Man Utd will be loaning us anyone else for a while...

From today's <a href="http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/chroniclesport/tm_headline=no-game-but-no-rest-for-toon-players%26method=full%26objectid=18523897%26siteid=50081-name_page.html">Chronicle</a> Damn that Lee Clark!

I bet it's just someone from Wales, or a North-West club...

Sounds like somebody from abroad. Ayala?

No Luque in the squad seems Clark doesn't want him playing. Aye, that MUST be it.

That's what it's all about, eh? Opinions, opinions, opinions. I still don't think we'd move for him and I can imagine the ignorant masses being nonplussed about the whole thing if we did... i.e. "Aw man, he was fucking shite last time he was here like! All we fucking do is buy ex-players with Ratface as boss! Why the fuck didn't we sign Darren Bent?" But it's a hell of a lot easier to call someone "shite" than to look into why they were underperforming (in perhaps the worst NUFC side I've seen since I was old enough to support properly.) Sibierski has already proven, in my eyes, that Roeder has an eye for a buy (and Martins has hardly been too bad either!), I suppose all we can do is trust his judgement again. I would definitely be happy to see JDT given another crack of the whip on a loan move, though.

Which isn't bad news, IMO. Babayaro is a shirker, no doubt, but he has a lot of ability on the ball and should offer us a lot more in home games (everyone has seen the difference having a fullback with a bit of passing ability/technique can bring to the team now that Nobby's been in.) Shame we'll be back to Carr/Babayaro against Villa, as I'd obviously prefer Nobby in there, but it's fucking miles better than having Huntington/Edgar/Ramage at fullback.

Probably the closest thing to a Gudjohnsen we could ever hope to attract here, I can't help but feel that he would work really well with any of Martins, Ameobi or Owen... he's something different to all three of them, which is exactly what we should be looking for and he'd have a hell of a lot to prove if he returned. Especially if we could do the loan-permanent thing that is mentioned in that article. Would be a hell of a story if he came back here and did well.

pretty thin description of success......"he's made money,he's succesful"...more to life than money you know,especially till i get paid a week on friday. I was being sarcy, like, just for the record. I'd consider being the chairman of NUFC a success, it'd be a dream living. Possibly the biggest job in the city?

Aye, fuck all successful people! Bastards.

I am distraught at this news! NOT! Oooh! A pre-21st century burn for Robbie Savage!

I had a feeling what I was posting was HTL-ish when I was writing it, funnily enough I knew you'd agree with me. Shame you weren't about when the debate was "raging".

I have actually agreed that I wouldn't want us paying £10m for him, while also saying that Tottenham/Man Utd are lucky that they can take the gamble. So we have exactly the same view there. The only thing that was bugging me was people comparing things on too simplistic a level, I'm just aiming to have a bit of a better debate about things than the norm. Too much free time today!

Why? Cole had Beardsley beside him for almost the entirety of his time here and was playing in an up-and-coming team with a top-class manager and no fear. Martins has been partnered with Sibierski, Ameobi, Dyer and others in a very average side with an average manager. All the comparisons are fairly ridiculous, if you ask me, but a good way to whittle away time. martins is closer in style to cole,ie get me the ball in the box and i'll get a shot off. as you saythe circumstances are vastly different,all the more galling how much stick martins is taking in some quarters Agree 100%, although I have to stay he fucking winds me up when he strolls around up front and when he doesn't make any decent runs. Suppose it will come, though, a 22-year-old is never going to be the finished article - in fact, nobody is.

He's an utter crock. He's been a lot better for us when he's played than I could ever have imagined, but he's still nowhere near what we should have in our starting eleven.

I've already said exactly the same in a different post. Welcome to an hour ago. I could go on for hours about why British players cost more: selling to direct rivals, etc. - but you'll never agree, even though it's perfectly logical that they get sold for more cash. Carrick was integral to Spurs, hence the big price - it would have been even more if Carrick hadn't wanted to move so badly. You've completely missed the point there mate, which is exactly what I have been saying all along in my posts. You cannot compare Martins at £10m to Bale at £10m because there are literally dozens of variables that are involved in any one transfer, some of which I've already pointed out. It's not as simple as ability = value, it never has been. It depends on factors such as: - The player's current role in the team. (Integral player = bigger price, like Carrick... surplus to requirements, like Martins/Emre.) - The player's international experience. (International caps = bigger price.) - The relationship between the selling club and the buying club (local rivals/divisional rivals/no relationship.) - The number of clubs interested in the player. (More clubs = bigger price.) - The player's own desire to stay or go. (Wants to leave = smaller fee.) - The financial situation of the clubs involved: does the selling club need the money? (Lower price?) The list that determines a player's price is endless, that's what I'm getting at. There are always reasons why people get bought for the prices they demand. Some turn out to be worth the money, plenty don't. But at the point when the transfer is made the player is WORTH that amount, it is then up to him to prove his worth or to show he WAS overpriced.

conduction transfer business is not an excact science, thus they will very very rarely "know what they are doing". Did you think souness knew what he was doing when he wasted a shitload of money on luque and boumsong? or even bobby on the likes of carl cort? and this is not a nufc factor - i agree that some managers have been better than ours at making the right transfers, but it will always be a very risky business. a solid investment and a calculated decision - please mate, you cannot even believe that yourself? if by this you mean ferguson having a chat with glazer saying "he is a great prospect, his value may even increase", well then you are right. but solid investment based on a calculated decision - no way! finally, you ask for facts, but what are your facts.... this lad has proven absolutely nothing yet! and i am not saying that he never will, but there is a pretty big risk of that! So Alex Ferguson doesn't see it as a solid investment? And him bidding £8m wasn't a calculated decision? He just did it for a laugh then, yeah? Hardly. I agree that transfers are not an exact science, but there is more to it than you say. As for facts, my facts are that Martin Jol bid £6m for Bale and Ferguson bid £8m, these are facts. An unknown club has also bid £10m for him, that is a fact. It's the same thing I base my entire argument upon, yet it seems to have gone completely over your head. You say he's not worth the money, at least two Premiership managers think he is and one from the Championship agrees. Those are my facts, you have nothing but opinion. Not that you won't turn out to be right, there is, of course, a chance of that. But the odds are certainly in Bale's favour. The price Bale gets sold for will be his current value, that will also be a fact.

Why? Cole had Beardsley beside him for almost the entirety of his time here and was playing in an up-and-coming team with a top-class manager and no fear. Martins has been partnered with Sibierski, Ameobi, Dyer and others in a very average side with an average manager. All the comparisons are fairly ridiculous, if you ask me, but a good way to whittle away time.