alpal78

Sorry Bluf, I hang my head in shame

Agree with this especially the earlier part. Yesterday I was almost in denial and ready to dismiss the counterattack goals as goals that should not have been had we been on 2-2. But ya now I agree that counterattack is part and parcel of football, happens all the time. Even if you push up high, there must be a plan on how to recover quickly. To be undone once is unlucky but twice in almost a carbon copy move shows that we have not prepared for German's speed and precision in counter attacks. Did the players even knew about these German attributes? So either Capello didn't prepare them or players ignored his instructions when pushing up to equalize, either way it is England's fault.

I'll bet that short of the FA threatening to stop supporting FIFA (which of course would never happen), nothing is gonna change even after this incident. Of course we all fell it especially today as England fans but the truth is that this mistake has happened so many times (domestic league, CL and internationals) and every time it does Blatter just goes all Shakespeareans about culture of football or some garbage like that. Nothing is gonna change even after today. It's time we all give watching football and follow Spelling Bee or Scrabble as our national sports, at least they embrace technology!

I see your point but might have been a red card. Apparently this ref has given red cards in 70% of the games he refereed which is mental!

Yes, but not during a single game. I don't think he made changes which influenced the course of a game once this tournament did he? He hasn't, that was my point really. Maybe not during the game. But I thought putting on Milner to replace Lennon for the Slovenia game when all the pundits were screaming for Joe Cole was brave and a masterstroke. Same for putting on Heskey on for Defoe against Slovenia coz at that point we badly needed a target man although that wasn't really a difficult decision to make so not too much credit there. Don't think people should look too much into the SWP today. At that point we were already down 1-4 and nothing he did would have been perceived as the right decision.

Good point. As it happens they scored four times to our one. Dave I don't think you are being fair to Jayson's arguments though perhaps he is exaggerating it a bit. He is not denying that German scored 4 against one and that's why we lost. His argument which I agree to a certain extent is that attacking wise we were not that far off. German scored two goals on the counter attack when we were pushing up high for the equalizer. Yes breathtaking stuff from the Germans, but saying that we would not have been pushing up that high had the score been 2-2 is a valid point. Jayson argument is that we were unlucky with some of our attacking moves. Lampard's goal one. The save from Gerrard was top class finger tip save. But that's it for me. The Lampard freekick that hit the bar I think would have been saved by the keeper if it didn't, he looked to have covered it. I think Jayson is annoyed that so many people are exaggerating on how poor our performance was, saying things like we could not string 2 passes together is clearly rubbish. Unfortunately in trying to counter such exaggeration, Jayson's ends up with some exaggerations himself. The truth is somewhere in between, we deserved to lose with or without Lampard's goal but the scoreline flattered the Germans. We had more ball possession and more shots on target and their keeper probably made more top class saves too but ya we deserved to lose that game

You say that but at 2-1 down with another half an hour to go we shouldn't have been attacking like that. Dont disagree. Doesnt change the fact that we wouldnt have been if we'd had what we deserved either. The defending was awful though yes. It still changes the entire game. If we come back from 2-0 the momentum is completely with us & Germany have to push out more again. Would have opened up a lot more chances. Shocking call. I know what you mean but I'm resisting the urge to think about it like that. It almost leads to letting the players off the hook and blaming the officials. The players showed depressingly little heart. Judging from comments so far, I doubt many people will agree with this but the only outfield players who really looked like they were trying with everything they had, for me, were Gerrard and A Cole. I agree with you, I thought Gerrard was the only player who showed like he cared although that inevitably led to him to shoot even when he should have passed. The scoreline flattered Germany, they probably shaded the game ya but those 2 goals they scored was due to the fact that we pushed so high up. No way we would have done that if we were at 2-2. Capello's mistake is that he should have realized German's fast counter attacks and insisted that at least the 2 full backs, Barry and possibly one CD stay back even when we get attacking set pieces.

shit I'm getting nervous already!

Against the German team, Upson should suffice. There might be a lack of pace in the middle if he's alongside Terry, but not sure the Germans have anyone pacey who would be a threat. Cacau has looked dogshit. That Ozil guy is not fast? serious question

I guess I'm basing it more on hope than anything else but that's all I have right now

Some reports are suggesting that there is a small chance that King would be fit for the game. For me he is much better than either Carragher or Upson. Would you take the risk of playing King, stick with Upson (who I was not convinced with) or reinstate Carragher?

Why so? I have no problems admitting that he was useless against USA and especially Alegeria. But in the game against Slovenia, he showed good movement, good link up and hold up play and he looked hungry again. The ony thing missing was his sharpness in front of goal. Given the improvement and as his match fitness picks up, what suggest to you that Rooney will revert to "another stroppy 90 minutes"? Granted the Germans are better than Slovenia as a team, but I don't think their defenders are that much better. If they do attack us which they will with overlapping full backs (especially Lahm), that would open up space for our attackers and offset any advantage that they have vis-a-vis Slovenia. I reckon Rooney is going to improve further and get his first goal. Predictions are normally based on gut instincts more than anything else, but I'm curious why you feel he will go backwards?

What, in training? Probably give it a go, yeah. We need someone to be able to give a bit of cover so some people decide to run forward with the f**king ball. The commitment and urgency going forward has been horrific! No fluidity, no sharpness of passing, no planning 3 or 4 passes ahead. We've been really gash, and yesterday was pretty poor as well when you consider the space and time we had and how sh*t they were. As it stands we'll get ripped apart from Germany because we have f**k all going forward! I'd stick him in there definitely. Then tell the others to get on with their jobs and score a f**king goal. EDIT: Just relaised the 'tomorrow' part. No idea why I said 'tomorrow' like. You know what I mean That's right quarter final against the Germans would be the best time to try out a player who didn't even play that much for Man Utd this season and apparently didn't train today due to injury! Capello would be foolish to do that

So how do you guys think Italy will do today? Qualify or 2nd 'big' team out?

It's tough choosing between Upson and Carragher. Upson was very nervous in the beginning and looked even slower than Carragher. I reckon many are plumping for Upson after that last ditch tackle (I was so nervous I actually missed it or can't remember). I'd say Carragher just about pips it for me, not that I'm 100% sure.

I thought Capello was nearly in tears during the interview, he was clearly emotional. What Capello did wrong: 1) Replacing Rooney with Cole. True Rooney was horribly off form in terms of scoring, but he was holding up the ball and linking play which was easing pressure on our defense. The ball just wasn't sticking up front after Rooney left. Joe Cole was non existent in attack and didn't do much tracking back either, pretty useless really. Can we now put to bed this idea of Joe Cole being England's saviour, he was good...4 years ago. 2) Should have replaced Milner with Lennon in the last 5-10 minutes, Milner was clearly knackered and Lennon's pace would force Slovenia defenders to stay a bit deep. What Capello did right: 1) Heskey (as much as I don't like him) on for Defoe. Defoe too was flat out after such a high energetic performance and we were screaming for a target man to hold the ball upfront in the last few minutes. Not that Heskey did too much of that, but at least he kept their centre defenders occupied. 2) Keeping Gerrard on the left and playing Defoe with Rooney was brilliant despite everyone else crying for a 4-5-1 with Gerrard behind Rooney - honestly don't think we would have won with a 4-5-1 especially with Rooney so off form. Well done boys, don't care if we meet Germany, it means we get one day extra rest which is important for is coz we play with high tempo.

Thanks for that reminder...we didn't know!

I'm getting nervous as fuck!

Lighten up Dave, one step at a time

too risky by my books, one or both of them will fuck up

Kinnear tbh. At least Kinnear will fall sick once in a while to make way for Houghton!

Oops sorry mate

Dare you put some money on that "strange feeling" of yours? Odds for France to qualify are quite decent!

Is what I said too... How does Cote d'Ivoire count as a "big" team? Because they have a few players in the EPL? Ghana are African Cup of Nations runners-up, and Cameroon is the highest FIFA-ranked (participating) African nation... Hahaha I knew someone would say that. The use of the term 'big' is just based on my impression of the teams that were thought as having a good chance of progressing before the World Cup started. I did think of including Ghana but then felt it would have been one too many. I still think Ivory Coast is currently the best of the African teams especially with Essien out for Ghana.

Why? They simply have to win against Chile and are through. Chile's GD at the moment is + 2. Spain's is + 1. So in case of Spain winning it would make: Chile: +1, Spain + 2. Spain are through as soon as they win against Chile. Or did I get something wrong here? I think you are right with the goal difference, but not so sure it would be that easy to beat Chille who will need at least a draw to qualify.