Cronky

True, there may not be anything in this story about the golf tournament. However, the point that I thought was very well made by CS was that Keegan is not actually a proven winner, and we shouldn't be acting as if he's offering us anything exceptional other than popularity with the majority of the fans. We need someone who's going to treat the job as a great opportunity, not someone who's only going to accept it on the terms of his own choosing. As for the alternative, if Big Joe makes a success of his 6 weeks in charge, I'd give him a longer contract. True, we're a bit restricted in choice at this stage of the season, but I wouldn't turn back to Keegan after all this. No way.

Yes, Kinnear has been mouthy, but in the circumstances, he's got to make his presence felt. With the media trying to treat it all as a bit of a joke, he's got to assert himself and maintain confidence for both his sake and the players. It's also a smart move to put all the attention and pressure on himself, because that can ease things for the team. Let's just see how he does over the next month before we reach a verdict.

You're definitely not the only one. I agree with pretty much everything you've written there, and especially the bits in bold. Imo Keegan will be damned lucky if NUFC has him back, and not the other way around. Personally I hope that the new owners look elsewhere, and as you suggest with a positive forwards vision rather than a nostalgic backwards glance. If the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour then Keegan is way too much of a risk - he's walked numerous times before, and imo it would just be a matter of time before he walked again. Keegan has given much to (but also taken much from, which sometimes seems to be forgotten around here) NUFC in the past - his legendary status is assured, but it's time that the club moved on. yep bang the fuck on the money from chicago I've not heard the case expressed like that, but it's spot on. He should be proving his worth, not behaving like he's doing us a big favour by coming back.

The issue isn't how good or bad you think Shola is. It's do you play Shola or Xisco. Shola gives you more of a physical presence and Xisco has pace. It seems quite sensible to start with one and finish with the other. We all know that Shola isn't Pele, but neither is Xisco. It's important that Joe makes his own mind up on the basis of what he sees for himself, not on what others tell him. I've no problem with this.

In the circumstances, I can't see that JK having a go at the hacks will do any harm at all. Firstly, it wasn't a rant. He didn't lose his temper, and was in control of himself, which was important. It was a deliberate decision on his part to tell those blokes what he thought. Amidst all the negativity and fear that surrounds the place, he was showing that he wasn't afraid of the situation. I think that can rub off on the players.

Perhaps for his own sake, JK felt he had to do it. He's realised that it's a tough job and they're all just hoping he's going to fail so that they can laugh at the club again. Maybe, in that situation, if he didn't hit back, he'd go under.

It sounds like these South Africans are trying to pick the club up on the cheap, and run it on the cheap. Going public with their supposed agreement with KK is an attempt to get the fans on their side and put pressure on Ashley. They're bang out of order, aren't they, making this sort of statement at this stage? There are other offers on the table, and it looks like they're trying to steal a march on those who are playing the game and keeping quiet.

Now that's telling them. It's interesting that Joe has sussed out this anti-Newcastle agenda so quickly.

Eight million! Give over, thats only 16,000 season tickets, peanuts for what he did for this club this year. I'd be embarrassed if i was Keegan and came back after this debacle. So would I, £8 million ffs. You really wonder what those behind the scenes, who are more in the know, are actually saying about this in private. A bloke stays away from his usual line of work for 3 years, and runs his own business. That business runs into a bit of trouble, and he then accepts a job back in his usual profession, under conditions that he wouldn't usually accept. After 8 months of intermittent trouble, he storms out, claiming he's been sacked and refusing all attempts at reconciliation. He's then into his employers for £8 million compensation. Would such a person normally be hailed as a great man of principle?

No is the answer, because there's nothing worse than relegation. But I'd say that the spirit within the club hasn't been great since the days of Sir Bob. We've become a very discontented lot. I was hoping that a feeling of unity had developed, but that's all been shattered again now.

Looks like Shola for the first hour, and then Xisco. It's worth a go. Shola puts himself about a bit, and can be difficult to stop in certain situations. He does tire, and Xisco with his pace might do well for the last half hour. It's no good pretending we've got Berbatov or Torres to choose from.

Just wanna add, I think this guy would be very good for us. I'm a Saracens season ticket holder, and since he got involved things have certainly looked good. He's got Eddie Jones in as manager (Former Austrailia manager when we beat them in the final), and signed England captain Steve Borthwick, former Wales captain Michael Owen and a big named South African (Van Heerdan). Talk of 2 of the biggest players in South Africa coming in next season too. Seems like he knows he has to invest heavily at the playing level to get results, anyway. Not so much the youth approach that Ashley has gone for. Hope you are right then Investing big in rugby and investing big in football are different propositions. The guy seems to recognise that himself.

If you're going to restrict your argument to gaining promotion, then that makes Aidy Boothroyd, Neil Warnock, Alan Curbishley etc etc great managers. They've all got ability, but I don't think they receive the kind of messiah-like, exaggerated praise that Keegan gets. I'm not saying the guy hasn't got his strengths, but the hysteria that surrounds him gets in the way of any objectivity as to his real worth, compared to the alternatives. The other major criticism of Keegan is that once the upward momentum stops, he loses heart. That's what happened here, with England, and with Man City. That's the flip side of this mercurial image of his.

What Keegan achieved before was done under conditions that don't exist any more - ie the ability to outspend the opposition. A lot of people are not facing up to that.

Most of the time that would have been called a yellow, but it was a bad tackle so he can't complain. The media seem to spend too much time bothering about the finer points of decisions - the worst culprit being Andy Gray, who seems to think it's his job to mark the referee's card each time the whistle blows. Unless a decision is clearly wrong, the ref's verdict should stand.

A lot of the statements on here seem to be based on the premise that because he's the owner, everything that's happened must be his fault. There was a lot that he got right. But a Chairman once said that all the decisions that he made paled into significance beside the one concerning the choice of manager. And Ashley got that wrong, at least for the plan that he had in mind. Where he can't be blamed is for the manner and timing of Keegan's departure, which has caused so much damage. Keegan has a lot to answer for there.

That first paragraph seems to be written like you know everything as a matter of fact. If you are able to write it like because you know things that we all dont then thats is absoluitely fair enough but are you really able to use the phrases "He wanted the same situation...." and "He had an attitude.." ? It's what I think happened. I took it as read that it would be treated as theory rather than fact. Not that talking about someone's inner motivation is ever a matter of fact, mind. I'm more interested in hearing whether people agree or not.

Apparently none of the seven are either Nigerian or South African. They do say that empty vessels make most sound.

Keegan took the job, knowing that he'd be working to a DOF, with a limited budget. However, he wanted the same situation as he had last time, where he was working direct to a Chairman / Owner, and was able to persuade him to spend big. He had an attitude of arsey non-cooperation with Wise and his team so that he would either 1) get is own way in this or 2) get sacked and walk off with a lot of compensation. He didn't achieve 1) and took the opportunity of 2) when the chance presented itself. I don't have an 'agenda' against the bloke. Only an opinion. If he comes back, I hope he succeeds, because this is my club. I'd just rather someone more deserving got the opportunity.

Ashley only had the job for one year, during which there was a lot of upheaval that was not entirely within his control. No-one will be able to definitely say whether things would have worked out well or not in the long-term. Personally I think he had the right ideas.

He's obsessed with the past. The title of this thread was intended to be provocative and make us think about the post Ashley era now he has been hounded out. Even NE5 has to realise that whether FFS and Co gave us courageous and successful leadership or whether they gave reckless leadership leading towards oblivion, it doesn't really matter any more. They are not coming back. It would be good if he could tell us what he wants post Ashley in specific real world terms rather than continuously using abstract expressions such as its gaining success on the field that matters, and thats his main requirement which he must do to the best of his ability. We ALL know that and we ALL want that, it's just that a lot of us thought that's what Ashley was doing until Keegan walked and he may just still be our best chance. If you want him out then specify what will improve our situation, but with specifics please not just "Ashley's s****, Keegan's a messiah, the old board were great" type remarks which frankly any retard can spout. Even if you think he might have been our best chance there's no way he's going to do anything positive with the club now. He will sell to the highest bidder (as yet unknown) and will try to tick it along keeping losses at a minimum until that happens. A quick sale has to be preferable since at least there's some chance of something constructive happening. In terms of what I would like to see - something along the lines of what Lerner has done at Villa would do for me. Villa have Martin O'Neal and you can be certain O'Neill would have not stuck around if he was treated the way Keegan was. Not sure about that. I love KK's style and have little time for O'Niell but he is a lot stronger mentally than Keegan and far less impetuous. He may have stuck around and fought his corner, unlike Keegan. I think more likely O'Neill wouldn't have accepted the job in the first place. He doesn't like the idea of a DOF. Keegan accepted the job and then tried to change the terms.

I think that idea has been floated before.

I'm yet to be convinced about Ambiani and all these stories. With his kind of money, he could walk into just about any Premiership club - including Liverpool or Arsenal - and pick them up without making much of a dent in his wallet. Why all this drawn-out, fiddling around with a club like Everton?

What about the SAFC model with a front man backed by a group with enough money between them? Seems to be working. That's a good point, but I'd add 'so far' on to 'seems to be working'. They bought the club cheap, made good choices with their Manager and Chief Exec, and invested well to bring about promotion and then keep the club there. The task of pushing on from where they're at is a different one altogether though.

I don't particularly like the sound of consortiums that have been put together just to buy the club. It suggests that there won't be much in the way of funds to invest in the club, over and above what has been generated through income. I also worry whether divisions might appear between the various backers, at some stage. (Look at what's happened to Liverpool) I'd be happier with a leader who could impose a direction and, if necessary, take calculated risks. It seems to me that with these consortiums we'd be operating on a more strictly business model, and I've yet to see anything to get enthusiastic about. As Sir John Hall said, the corporate model doesn't really work for football. These people also seem to be dangling the carrot to the fans of bringing Keegan back, but Keegan likes to have access to the man with the purse strings, and to persuade him to cough up funds. As we've seen, he doesn't like working within a corporate structure. That's if you think it's right to bring Keegan back anyway, which I don't. Unless we're looking at some Abramovich-style sugardaddy, I can't see that they're going to offer us anything more than Ashley, and in fact, arguably less.