TRon

they also mention getting behind the team, having a reality check, and suggest you all stop moaning like fucking girls everytime something bad happens, which is worth a try for all of you, wake up, we're a laughing stock of a club thats been going backwards for YEARS and we cant be turned around in one season, nevermind 13 games All vague "rally behind the troops, it's early days" soundbites which mean fuck all tbh. You could have said that about Sammy Lee if you were a Bolton fan. Big Sam was a big fish at Bolton where the odd upset was a massive triumph. Right now he's doing the opposite so why does he deserve special treatment based on his results so far?

True Faith says - stick. Read the whole article, in a nutshell it seems to be saying "stick with Sam because there's no one else". Which may well be true at the moment but it's a pretty weak defence if that's the best they can muster. At least HTT tried to convince us of the long term master plan and set out a possible, if optimistic blueprint. For me personally, making fairly decent players look second best to truly awful teams just smacks of bad management. Big Sam has always banged on about results over performance which I agree with. If he's been trying to get results with his team line ups this season, he's done a shite job so far. That's really all there is to it.

Where did we finish last year? Do you think we'll finish much higher this year? With a much stronger squad it should be added. We gained some players but we lost some as well. There's enough good players in that squad to comfortably beat the dross we have been struggling against all season Parky. That's the bottom line.

Where did we finish last year? Do you think we'll finish much higher this year? With a much stronger squad it should be added.

Keep him till the end of the season, mainly because there's no alternative. But ultimately there's no chance of that brand of football matching the stuff the top teams play.

Your argument is sensible and one I would support usually, especially after having had such high expectations of the man. Yes it's too early by the looks of it to get rid, and no doubt we will run the wrath of Fleet Street if we do so. Deep down though I have no real faith he can make us anything other than a 'spoiler' team like Bolton. He has looked absolutely clueless how best to deploy real footballers as opposed to hard-running lunks like Nolan and Davies at Bolton. Right now there isn't a team in any division who won't look like world-beaters if they play us. Derby, Sunderland, Reading, boro....monstrously poor teams who can only thank the Gods when they get round to us in the fixture list. Out-played by the cloggers and thrashed royally by the good sides. That is where Allardyce has brought us so far. It really does take a special kind of tactical genius to achieve it so bravo Big Sam.

Moot point since he won't get offered the job. Hence I haven't replied to the survey as it is redundant.

This guy is Russia's playmaker. Quite funny that we are now in for him (if it's true) as it must be dawning on Big Sam that huff and puff football is ok for spoiling tactics against top sides, but you then tend to run into problems against teams who will huff and puff a bit harder. Like Reading, sunderland, Derby...

That was a good read, and I have to say I'd be surprised if Ramos doesn't turn things round quickly as he seems to have a great philosophy on team building. Actually I think Allardyce is quite similar, and is probably very good at man-management. Big Sam has some great qualities, his problem is his success has been based on what he's done at Bolton where upsetting the big boys was an end in itself. I don't think he could even imagine how to play a passing game, which the best teams do - even the defensive ones.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder. It would be a shame and very unfair on Sam. I am disappointed though that Allardyce only seems to think there's one way to play football. When he arrived I saw him as a manager deserving of better resources that would allow him to compete at the top level. Now, having seen him put out teams outplayed by championship level sides, there is a nagging fear that he is more suited to managing small clubs who can ruffle the big boys. Your first highlighted sentence echoes my thoughts upon his appointment. The second sentence echoes my feelings now. I agree with the first sentence, too, but isn't it really a little bit early to be judging him? It isn't a judgement mate, just a nagging fear. I agree with the Chairman that we need to look long term, but I have doubts that Allardyce's direct football can cut it at the highest level. At best maybe win a cup and be a pain in the arse team for the top sides. That's no mean feat, though you don't need to spend millions to achieve it. And I wouldn't want to wait 5 years to see it happen as Sam is implying.

I wasn't making out SBR to be flawless, or even the benchmark. The point of the thread in the first place was to show that he was astute enough to play to the strengths of the players he had available, even if he didn't believe in direct football. I could be wrong but I don't think Allardyce's form of football is getting the best out of what he has available. Far from it.

Came across as the views of a passionate fan, hence the need to dump on Gordon, point to Sunderland's lack of results etc. Made no effort to look at our failure to put poor sides in their place which concerns me more, especially after Derby were twanked yet again an Reading were swept aside, both at home it should be said. Sunderland are shite, yet we looked like we were hanging on for dear life until they scored. That's what I saw, I don't know if this guy was watching a different match.

Every word rings true. You mentioned Emre, I'd rather see Robbie Elliott playing left wing than Emre. Emre's a much better footballer, but he hasn't got the athleticism required to play wide. I'd love to see the charts Allardyce is studying to come to the conclusion it's a good idea to play him on the left.

Very well put. The fact we won so many away games under Robson had plenty to do with the fact we had Robert, Dyer and Bellamy with pace, alongside Solano who was fantastic at setting up high speed counter-attacks. Our only two current players with pace were employed at left back and on the bench against Sunderland.

Big Sam's done well in the transfer market, so the answer to the question is definitely yes.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder. It would be a shame and very unfair on Sam. I am disappointed though that Allardyce only seems to think there's one way to play football. When he arrived I saw him as a manager deserving of better resources that would allow him to compete at the top level. Now, having seen him put out teams outplayed by championship level sides, there is a nagging fear that he is more suited to managing small clubs who can ruffle the big boys.

I read the whole post but I don't really buy it. In a nutshell, this season is supposed to be a training ground for next season and beyond. If you are a season ticket holder why would you pay to watch training sessions on a match day? Especially as Allardyce himself has stated he's in the results business?

It's worth pointing out that although I am critical of him, I admire much of what he has brought to this club in terms of discipline and methods. I was a big advocate of his when we were looking for a new manager and only a fool would sack a manager before he has had time to mould his team. Even so, I'm now doubtful that Allardyce is capable of making us anything other than a Bolton MkII. In which case I doubt he'll ever get us serious contenders for Champions league football because while we'll get some good results, we won't be adventurous enough to beat the crap sides, something Liverpool also struggle with due to their mindset.

Which is basically why I said after the Reading loss that I was writing this season off. Yes Robson made mistakes, which manager doesn't? But he was canny enough to use the weapons he had at his disposal even if it wasn't his preferred style, that was the point about Ferguson and Shearer. If experimenting means sending out teams scared of Derby then I don't subscribe to that plan. Derby were getting caned left and right before they played us and they have been getting caned ever since. Still, if playing shit teams at their own level is a form of training, I suppose we can all sit and twiddle our thumbs till next season.

I mentioned Robson because he was willing and able to change his style according to the players he had available. Keegan was no tactician but he only really got found out at a higher level. At least he knew that when you are playing against dross like Sunderland, Reading, Derby and other relegation candidates, you don't need to worry too much about what they are going to do. When Keegan last went to Roker Park he let Sunderland's mediocre players huff and puff and then sat back and watched as superior players like Beardsly and Ginola picked them off like snipers. Sam is going in against clogger teams and trying to out-clog them. We might not have Ginola now, but my opinion is that Sunderland would have been more worried if Enrique, Beye and Martins had been playing. They wouldn't have handled the extra pace too well.

I would say he's one of our best players for retaining the ball under pressure. Would have been invaluable yeterday, but then I thought Martins would have caused them problems as well with his pace.

"How the hell did we come to this?"

Heard he's been described as the poor man's Gerrard before. Seems quite accurate to me.

"just making the best of what he had." Have you forgotten what Allardyce had done in Bolton, with the resource available to him? He's got far better resources here. Right now I'm not sure he's doing anything different to Graham Taylor at Watford or Harry Bassett at Wimbledon in bygone years.

I think in August this year, having suffered the previous season under Roeder and the Souness bollocks prior to that, we would have all been wise to have put this season as a near write off anyway - on the assumption that come May 08, we could sit back and say "what a difference to this time last year". I still say we have to let things run until May and then take stock - although admittedly, it doesnt look like its going to be the most enjoyable time I don't mind writing a season off for long term gain, but the point is more related to getting the best out of what you have. Robson wasn't a long ball merchant but he was wise enough to play to his teams strengths until he got his own personnel. This is where I think Allardyce isn't really fulfilling expectations.