Memphis

He's either going to deliver a 10/10 performance or end up getting sent off. No inbetween.

I don't have much sympathy for Everton, the case against them is pretty cut and dried. The only defenses are: 1) the punishment is too harsh and 2) what about Chelsea/Man City. 

With regard to 1, I think it may be a bit harsh but I think the willful nature of the deceit is being punished here. The idea being that FFP representatives from a club are there to act in good faith, not act in the most deceitful possible way that is in an interpretation of the rules. Everton didn't do that and the PL is trying to make a statement about what that means.

Which brings us to 2. The initial difference between these cases is that Man City/Chelsea have vigorously denied and are contesting the claims, which is delaying things hugely. That is their right. The rubber will meet the road if City/Chelsea are eventually found guilty, as by this standard, they would face an astronomical punishment. Would they enforce it? Would they try? Would they expect CAS or some such to intervene? I don't know. I do think they're going to have to do *something* as the coalition of clubs and owners who aren't a part of this will have a measure of influence to try to "clean it up", at least for appearances.

1 minute ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

Here man just fuck the technicalities of the laws enjoy the win and fuck Arteta and fuck Arsenal 

?

Fair enough fuck him

1 minute ago, simonsays said:

Eh, so if a player passes backwards from the byline and another attacking player is ahead of the defenders that is offside?  I can't believe that is correct.  How as the Brentford goal against Chelsea allowed then?  There was only the goalkeeper behind the attackers in that case

I'll be totally honest. I don't have a fucking idea how. The rule is way more complex than I originally thought. 

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Neither player was close to offside for Willock’s pass - the check was for the ball being played back to Gordon.  If it was played by the Arsenal player he can’t be off, and if it is played by Joelinton then he’s level or behind.  You can absolutely determine this. 

The point was - if both of the players end up with only one defender behind them, even a backward or level pass is offside. 

The image is from right before the ball ends up with Gordon. In that image, both players are behind Raya, leaving only one defender between them and the goal. If Joelinton passes that ball, it is absolutely offside no matter which direction the pass travels. The rule specifically says as much...you are only onside if you are behind two defenders or level with the second-last one.

But since you can't quite tell how the ball gets to Gordon, it has to stand.

14 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It’s not even close to being offside - it’s not a ‘who knows’ situation.  Gordon is level/behind Joelinton when the ball is played

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

It doesn't really matter BUT there is nothing mentioned about being level/behind automatically making a player onside. If both players are standing in an offside position when the pass is made, any pass makes the receiver offside whether forward or backward. 

My point was that you can't tell when or how the ball was "passed" to Gordon so determining offside is virtually impossible. 

It should also be noted that Gabriel is stooping to head the ball anyway because he knows Raya is never going to punch it. Gabriel is going down before Joelinton does anything. The ball isn't out of play. And the offside, who fucking knows? But it's nothing like a DISGRACE or THE WORST THING EVER 

2 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

Did you go hunting for that? ????

I didn't but someone else did and I'm glad they did

Weird how things change when you're on the receiving end.

Absolutely awesome intensity. Just hard to believe what we have become as a club in such a short time. I love each and every one of these lads. What effort, what desire, so many potential excuses to fall short and we've taken none of them. 

2 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

Are you really that quick?

Catlike quickness

Entertaining game, not a great quality game. Trippier has been off of late and that's really hurting us. Needs a rest. Burn vs Neto was like watching me against Usain Bolt. All in all, not a bad point but there are some concerning signs.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think this could be the making of him. Assuming he gets himself sorted out and gets the help he needs for his addiction, he will have seen this club support him and care for him during a difficult time. He will have had plenty of time to adjust to his new surroundings and learn the language, etc. If he is the player I think he is, this will be a massive motivation to return better, fitter, stronger than before. And if we care for him the way we have so far, he's going to care for us in a way few modern players could...

Frustrating one. Much improved second half without ever looking consistently threatening. Their defensive setup was smart and they executed it well. Learn from it and get better quickly. 

Hope the injuries aren't too bad. We are suddenly quite thin in some key spots.

We've really been spoiled by Trippier's quality this year. On a night like this, where he's a bit off, we haven't shown enough to be able to create without him.

Not Wilson's best game here. Their CBs have him in their pockets 

Schär is such a superb player man

Sometimes losing happens because of how well your opponent plays, not necessarily because of how poorly you play. Feels like every time we lose, a segment of fans calls our play "crap" or blames effort or whatever, and that's silly on a day like this. We've not done especially badly but this is the fucking Champions League, not the Championship. Mistakes are ruthlessly punished and standards are high. Credit to Dortmund for their approach and not being intimidated. This is a brilliant chance for our team to learn.

Schlotterbeck is like a Pokemon evolution of Schar.

They're a good side and they're playing excellently. No shame in being down a goal to these. Need a bit more composure and some better decision-making in the final third. Plenty still in this one.

2 minutes ago, madras said:

It's stupid but betting on your team to win isn't really dodgy in itself.

I see people saying this but it's simply not the case. Any athlete betting on themselves or their team to win sends a message to the rest of the gambling world - and an even bigger message when they don't bet on their team to win. It becomes clear within bookmaking circles how Tonali feels about his team's chances based on how much - or if - he bets. 

And obviously he has access to all sorts of proprietary information, it's inexcusably daft to do. I sympathise with his addiction issues and I hope he gets help. But he will be and should be punished severely. 

I was intrigued by the discussion here, and I admit that Tonali is a hard player to analyze right now for all the reasons that have already been discussed at length. I wanted to try to see if there was a data-based comparison to be had, so I used the player comparison tool on FBref and compared Rodri, Bruno G, and Sandro - for Rodri and Bruno, I included their age 23 season and the most recent one, for Tonali I included last year and what's happening so far this year.

You can add and change players if you want. There's too much data to display here but this is the link to see it all:

https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=6434f10d&p1yrfrom=2019-2020&player_id2=6434f10d&p2yrfrom=2022-2023&player_id3=82518f62&p3yrfrom=2021-2022&player_id4=82518f62&p4yrfrom=2022-2023&player_id5=0db169ae&p5yrfrom=2022-2023&player_id6=0db169ae&p6yrfrom=2023-2024

Long and short of it is, data is mostly encouraging, I'd say. Interesting to try to draw apples to apples comparisons. 

Would have loved all three points but I think the draw is fair - and perfectly fine. Bruno is absolutely fortunate to have remained on the pitch. Had a chance to kill it with Isak's 1v1 with the keeper but it wasn't meant to be. Poor from Tonali and the midfield for the Kudus goal but again - given the lack of depth and the amount of work, not surprising they ran out of energy. 

Need the break badly.

I cannot believe the transformation in his game. Over the last week, he has been forced into action against some of the best attackers in the world and he has done himself proud. What a professional he has been over the last 18-24 months and I could not be happier for a player, he deserved tonight as much as anyone.

PSG not taking us seriously with this setup, way too attacking, no links with the back 4. We have been incredible, all 11. Huge energy expenditure. Huge efforts. Expect a little more balance from PSG this half. 

What an emotional half. Phenomenal.