It all depends on if we have bollocks to force our game onto the shite around us when we play them. We are undoubtedly best when playing football on the floor and passing and moving etc but most teams haven't allowed us to do that and we've rolled over and let them intimidate us. Stoke will do this also, get in our faces and not give them a minutes peace. If we let them do this and fall into the trap of trying to play them at their own game we'll lose and be as good as down imo. Would I take 17th? Of course, now. As the best we can hope for is about 16th, 15th anyway.