merlin

You are right, and that is what it took to get rid of McKeag in the end...all this 'get behind the lads' stuff is old hat from the 50s when they really DID get behind them because they had a good side who tried their hearts out. Ashley & Co are only interested in the dosh - if they thought they were going to get another financial caning, they'd soon get their finger out.. Door-mats get trodden on....

Another good post, BG - I also was sickened by Dyer's antics at Boro and players like him have ruined the game for me....the club, though, are just as responsible as the players if they were prepared to sell them all at the start of the season; its no wonder the best ones want to be away - its a shambles..

The writing has been on the wall for a long time, in my opinion, and this result/performance has just about confirmed that the club is going down unless a miracle on the scale of Flight 1549 happens. Unfortunately, whilst the lucky passengers on that flight had an expert in charge in the form of Sullemberger, NUFC has Kinnear , Llambias, Wise and Ashley trying to land the club in the proverbial Hudson without it breaking-up....my money would be on Sullemberger every time..!! There have been many on here who keep saying things like 'WBA are already down' blah blah, and 'Blackburn & Stoke are worse than us, so we'll stay up'... Well, those who are guilty, what do you think NOW ? I have never been convinced that WBA were certs because they have continued to play good football and the manager(who I rate very highly indeed)has kept their heads up ; their form is in direct contrast to ours, having won their last 3 home games, yesterday against as side that may well be in the struggle too, so a virtual 6 points...NUFC, on the other hand, have performed abysmally, ESP against sides at the bottom when they need to get points - witness yesterday's gutless perormance. WBA have played the same number of games as us, equally divided between home & away fixtures and they are just 2 points behind NUFC...if their home form continues as it is now, I would put money on them overhauling us.. Despite losing at Chelsea, Stoke gave them a real fright, and they too are showing more bottle than NUFC. Only the Mackems and Boro are showing poor form now, although Villa's win at the SOS was hardly a shock. The body-language of the players basically tells the tale - they are poorly-motivated, the best ones want to leave, and they are ill-equipped for a relegation battle ; all classic signs of a club in disarray.. The manager is totally out of his depth at a club like Newcastle and tactically naive ; the Chairman is a non-entity who shouldn't be in charge of a Go-Kart, never mind NUFC, DOF(in all but name)another square peg in round hole, and as for the Owner - does he EVER learn anything ? I think those who have never thought about it should start buying maps of England to find out where the Championship clubs are based - you'll be needing them next season.. And, if anyone thinks it will be a quick return to the Prem, look at Reading now...and ask yourself how long famous old clubs like Wolves have been down there... It may be that the years under SJH and KK were the best years we will have in the modern era and it may be 7 years before NUFC are in a position to make a return to the top strata of football - if EVER. I'm just glad I saw the club performing as it should between 93-98, and 2001-3.

Shay deserves better than NUFC - period. The club is as big a joke as it was just before KK arrived in 92, and any player who can better himself would be stupid not to leave if he has the chance ; would YOU want to be playing Fizzy Pop football next season if you were Shay Given...??

Things can(and will)get a LOT worse....

So people are still blaming all of this s*** on Shearer? Jesus christ, nobody even mentions him anymore. Man United still sing songs about Roy Keane. Is it killing their club? Get a grip! Are Roy Keane or Cantona or Solksjaer ever mentioned in line with the man united job when fergie hints at retirement? Are they f***. Shearer is, and its f***ing embarrasing. Until he has a little stint here, and fails, we can never truely be rid of it. So we've got Kinnear because people are worried that fans want Shearer? Absolute rubbish. Wtf, how does what i said amount to that? Shearer was a player for us, and great one. AMEN, let's put him to bed. Small time mentality. Well the main problem we're facing is nobody wants to manage the club. You've hinted that it's because of the shadow of Shearer (if that's not what you mean, what the hell do you mean?) No, i haven't. Never mentioned it infact. Not from the other managers angle either. He's not THAT influential anymore. However, it's embarassing that when the position for manager has come up, you get the feeling they seriously want him, Keegan practically begged him to come at some level. It's pathetic, he's an ex-player, let's leave it at that. TO move on, we need to get rid of that mentality, imo. Nobody knows for certain how successful Shearer would be as a manager, but if his attitude to the game and personal drive is any guide, then the chances are he would do a decent job at the very least - do you think that Kinnear is any better ?? There was a certain Centre Forward who was also a hero at both his last clubs and was a native of one of them...unfortunately, he had to give up the game at 29 at go into management at a lower Div side where he became a great success... Neither of his two previous clubs asked him to return as manager despite both being in a mess, and he went, instead, to Derby.... Do you suppose that either Middlesbrough(where he was born and scored hundreds of goals)or Sunderland(where he was worshipped and loved the club), ever have thoughts on what might have been had one Brian Clough ever become their manager...!? And do you wonder whether NUFC would still be regarded at the NE's supposed No 1 club had Clough ever gone to the Mackems....!!?? Perhaps you ought to give it some thought......

Giving Kinnear a 2 year contract is an admission of opt-out ; basically, Ashley is just desperate to keep the club in the Prem, even if its by the skin of its teeth, rather than invest in it and try to recruit a younger manager with long-term potential. If you look at Kinnear's record, you can tell what sort of club(and team) NUFC will be for the next few years and its not pretty ; take into account that one day(hopefully!)Ashley will sell,and then the new owners will have all the sorting-out to do and that ALSO will take at least 2 years.... Look forward to mediocrity for the foreseeable future, AND plenty of controversy with Refs, FA etc...

I still don't understand the stick Sir John Hall gets. I don't dislike him for what he did - more so because I don't think he was completely honest. I disliked his claim that the club would have gone bust without his intervention and I dislike the way he underplayed how much money he made out of the club despite frequently claiming otherwise. I also found his "Geordie nation" stuff patronising (though not to the same degree as Shepherd's). You are wrong about the club not going bust - it WOULD have gone into receivership for sure if SJH had not taken over. The fact is that he was actually on a World Tour as part of Alan Whicker's programme when dear Douglas phoned him in Sydney to say that unless they stood surety, the Bank would foreclose, so Sir John told Douglas that the Cameron Hall directors were to put a rescue package together, and he would take over when they got back. It is also a fact that the Bank(Barclays at the time)wanted to grab Sir John's personal Loan to the club which was made to allow KK to buy Kilcline from Coventry - crucial to the club staying up that season - because the club owed them money ; the personal loan was NOT part of the bail-out agreement. I do agree that he made a lot of money out of the club, but he took the risk in the first place when it could all have gone sour, and nearly did with Ossie in charge...unfortunately, that is what capitalism and investment is all about - look at our current Dear Chairman's gamble on Bradford & Bingley which went spectacularly sour and lost him 100m...that's life. The 'Geordie Nation' thing wore thin because he didn't follow up on the Scouting and Academy schemes - mainly because KK wasn't too bothered about that side, but Sir John DID finance the Falcons, the Cobras Ice Hockey, and the Basketball team in an effort to make the club like Barca - that was never going to work because most fans are just interested in Newcastle United. He also wanted to build the Leazes Park stadium, which would have been the best in Britain ; derailed by his having to step back from the club day-to-day due to ill-health, and lack of real pressure on the Council who allowed a bunch of nimbys to derail the project..SJH was ready to move to Gateshead if Planning Permission was denied, but too many fans were against it... As things have turned out, we wouldn't have got near to filling it right now, so just as well.... Personally, I don't give 2 monkeys about the money he made - he DID save the club when it was needed and gave it the chance of being a top outfit...he got old and its hardly his fault if those that followed him didn't build on the platform left.. When you talk about financial greed, you can find some much better and deserving targets just now..!!!!

How anyone could not rate any part of O'Neill's management is absolutely beyond me ; he is the man WE should have had and, had he been stupid enough to come to the comedy show that is Newcastle United, we would have been doing as well as Villa are now - IF he had been allowed to manage in his own way...

yes but when ur paying someone over 100k a week you expect f***ing 10x better then what he's doing at the moment It's not just Owen's fault, there is absolutely zero goals contribution from the midfielders. Duff, Butt, Jonas and Guthrie....how many have they got between them in half a season? It's pathetic. In total agreement.

A wind-up maybe, but my first thought was 'What have the Mansfield fans done to deserve this.??'

Too late for words - we need action ; transfers, new Chairman etc etc.

A huge topic with many solutions - mine are ;- 1. A takeover by someone who is REALLY interested and will devote 100% to the club's future 2.A new, permanent manager who is fairly young and keen to build a CLUB, not just a team.This means involvement in Reserves, Juniors, Academy development ; everything on the playing side...in fact, like SAF who arrives at OT around 7.30 - 8 am most days and deals with all outstanding managerial paperwork etc., the goes on to training, watches Juniors etc etc. 3. Constant development of coaching side via a/m manager so that a system of progression occurs like Shankly had at Liverpool 4.TOP CLASS medical staff and facilities 5.TOP CLASS Scouting system both at home and abroad 6. A general 'family feel' to ALL who work at the club from juniors and Tea-lady right through to Chairman & Directors ; a house divided against itself cannot stand..... 7.Enough finance to make SENSIBLE buys at the top level when the club achieves stability. These are the basic needs, and we have NONE of them right now...

AT LAST - the voice of reason...well done, BG, you are obviously a fan of many years who KNOWS what a bad team looks like. Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there? Apologies if not! No sarcasm at all, BG - I genuinely agreed with all you wrote.

The Chinese have a saying ; 'It is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove the point beyond all doubt'..... I reckon you have just verified the truth of their saying...... Wasn't that Mark Twain? He pinched it from China - reputedly a Confucius saying, Brummie..

Dr Jekyll?? Sorry, but I think Mr Hyde has got the upper hand - maybe Dr J has taken too much of the 'potion'....!!

AT LAST - the voice of reason...well done, BG, you are obviously a fan of many years who KNOWS what a bad team looks like.

The Chinese have a saying ; 'It is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove the point beyond all doubt'..... I reckon you have just verified the truth of their saying......

2 f***ing 1 on 1's he's missed in the ties. WORLD CLASS, CCCCCCCCLLLLLLLLLEEEEEAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYY NOT In that case, let him go to Man C or wherever, and affirm our RRRRRRRREEEEELLLLLEEEEGGGGAAATTTTIIIOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! Hope he goes so you can get some more practice with your Caps lock....

Theres a lot of 'willing it to be true' too. He sounds just like the German finance minister willing the British economy to fail. Quite typical of the Germans actually, I was in Berlin most of last week and one of the big discussions was how much the NHS is on German telly, with them saying how thats falling apart too. A pattern emerging? I don't think he's willing failure more heralding it. I think the German financial minister was probably doing the same. I think most of Europe would welcome the English game losing it's financial clout and a return to a more level playing field and that seems to be happening. In general I think Germans admire the English game and are less anti than some other nations about our recent dominance. As an Englishman I would like to see the possibilty of a Czech, Romanian or Bulgarian side competing seriously in the European cup as a club built on tradition and national talent rather than 4 English clubs who have bought success and have virtually no local players. (Man Utd excluded - credit where due) You mean Platini? Agreed about the general sentiment but the idea of an open free market for labour, goods and services across the EU wasnt our idea, it was franco-german. When its not to their advantage, they lobby for changes that re-set the system back to their advantage. Personally think, f*** em. This is true, but it always has been - UK politicians are quite happy to go along with it because they get nice tax-free jobs in the EU after Westminster... Blair gave away Britain's budget rebate back to the EU after a hazy hint by the French that they MIGHT review the Common Agricultural Policy(from which their farmers benefit hugely).... what happened? No reform and you guys now pay MORE tax to cover for the increased contribution... Just one small thing....there are plenty more...

Theres a lot of 'willing it to be true' too. He sounds just like the German finance minister willing the British economy to fail. Quite typical of the Germans actually, I was in Berlin most of last week and one of the big discussions was how much the NHS is on German telly, with them saying how thats falling apart too. A pattern emerging? The Germans are right, though - the British Economy is stuffed. It was built on a base of sand, with the Govt banking on ever-rising house prices(to make people feel rich and spend equity in their property in order to fuel an unsustainable consumer boom. This was fuelled by irresponsible lending(AND borrowing) from Banks etc and finally collapsed when the whole ring-a-roses ended as Banks realised that the CDOs(sold-on mortgages) weren't worth the paper they were written on...worse still(and this applies all over Europe, not just the UK), there are still LOADS of these things being held by banks who won't admit how much bad debt they actually have, which is why lending is tight... Govts over the past 30 years have ALL been responsible for building up this situation, because they all thought the UK could live on London's Financial services, and Service Industries like Call centres etc plus Retail.... A country of 60m plus CANNOT exist like this unless it has Natural resources to sell(like N.Sea Oil etc) - those are now dying out, hence dependence on Russia for Gas in Europe. Germany WILL struggle for a while because the rest of the Western World cannot now keep buying machinery, BMWs and Mercs etc., but they have all the technology in place for when the recession eases. The UK has given too much of its Industrial base away, or allowed it to deteriorate.... There will be huge questions for politicians to answer over the next few years, and I doubt that any of them have the answers....!! Naturally, football is NOT immune from this downturn, and Hoeness shouldn't gloat too much about the falling pound ; once Germany starts slowing(and it is already), the Euro will ALSO fall, and the pound is now worth about 1.10 Euros whereas it was hardly worth 1 last week.... Unless you are like Man C with a megarich owner, things are going to get tough ; SKY subs will start falling, so maybe they will have less to pay into football. Big changes ahead methinks....

Yes, and they came to SJP and one of our former players enabled them to pinch a point - true..?? As Fading star points out, our record against pooer teams is hardly great, is it?

It’s a fear shared by many. Our home form against the other relegation candidates has been s****. Home and away we’ve only beaten one of the clubs who people seem conceived are worse than us? If we’re not well clear of the relegation zone by the time we go to WHL anything can happen. Wonder goals, flukey goals, dodgy pens, sleepy linesmen, injury problems, flared tempers. Surviving the relegation run in is a question of nerve. It's a pressure cooker and I can’t see NUFC being up to the challenge - both supporters and players are already battered and bruised by this seasons events. Clubs like Stoke and Hull have a far better sense of purpose and direction, and a far greater strength of unity. NUFC is on it’s knees. Having three or four top quality players is our one advantage. How many of them will still be here next month remains to be seen. This is also spot-on - you just have to look at Stoke's battling effort to get a point from Liverpool to see the difference ; they are making up for supposed 'lack of quality' by fighting for their lives, a quality that NUFC clearly don't possess . People talk about WBA being 'already gone' but in many games they have actually played better passing football than NUFC ; back in 1986, we were in danger of relegation but Paul Goddard, never a recognised prolific goal-scorer, went on a scoring run from about Feb which saved our bacon...Goddard was, however, a very good player - we have nobody in that mould now, and if WBA were to unearth someone who can get goals better than their current squad, they will be able to mount a recovery ; Bolton have a record of escaping in the past and Wigan are picking up results... Its going to be tough unless the team is strengthened considerably... Is your head that far up your arse you cant remember Chelsea away? And is yours so far up your own(not uncommon for you either..)that you don't remember Liverpool at home, or have you just discovered selective memory loss...? You said a battling effort to get a point was a quality we dont possess. I never said falling apart and playing like s*** was a quality we did not possess. Not like you to lose the train of logic. The difference is that when Stoke played us at SJP, they battled right to the end and got a point - people keep saying that they have so-called 'inferior' players to us, but that means nothing unless so-called 'superiority' is combined with determination and organization ; they HAVE battled better than us , and OK, we had a poor side out against Liverpool, but nobody can deny that Stoke gave them a MUCH tougher game at the Britannia then we did at SJP ; they tried to win the game right to the end, even if it wasn't pretty to watch, and those qualities are the ones that will keep you up in a tight battle. Did anyone really expect us to surrender 1-5 at home, even with some first-teamers missing? The above comments can also be applied to clubs like Wigan and Fulham... In any case, a club like NUFC should NOT have such a thin, threadbare squad - that is why I am so annoyed at the policy(or lack of it) that the club has adopted. But you surely dont deny that going to Chelsea and sealing a draw away from home demonstrates the squad has the sort of battling qualities that Stoke displayed at home against Liverpool? I can point at Stoke's 5-0 demolition at Old Trafford to make a point that there squad is s*** and they cant battle the way we do, hence demonstrating the complete futility of highlighting one game to make a general point about the abilities and characteristics of a squad. The loss against Liverpool was particularly distressing for me since i'd given up my usual seat to accomodate someone who hadnt been for a few years and bought two extra tickets as xmas presents, ended up sitting next to someone who clearly had learning difficulities as he spent the entire match informing me that his "mam is cooking him roast potatoes at 4" and "he was having chicken for his dinner on new years" and other such pearls of footballing wisdom. With that on top of the game itself, you definitely deserve some sympathy....!! Yes, Stoke lost 5-0 at OT, but we managed to beat even that when we went there last season... Generally, though, they have managed better results against teams outside the top 4 , and that may well count at the end of the season - esp if the current inactivity in the transfer market continues for NUFC.

Should have been done years ago - completely ridiculous in today's financial climate.

...Despite the fact that they ARE inept, and have proved it many times..