merlin

No matter HOW much 'domestic pressure' there is, it can't stop EU imports - that is the point...

It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. I've got news for you - EU Legislation DOES affect other nationalities - why do you think people from Eastern Europe can work in the UK AND get benefits there, when people whose relatives actually came from the place and are treated as Aliens at UK Airports ! You are right about ONE thing and I made that point in my first post - its down to INTERPRETATION by National states - and that is dictated by politicians... I don't know whether you are British or not, but if so, you are about to lose many of the qualities of being a nation due to the new EU Constitution - nothing like being ruled by Foreign, unaccountable bureaucrats, is there...!!?? Well, I am German and work/teach in law, so I pretty much think that I know what I am talking about. The thing about the people from Eastern European countries is down to most of them actually being members of the EU now. Therefore the EU employment market is open to them. It's just that certain countries (as Germany) did protect certain areas their employment market against the proposed influx from workers from Poland and other new members, others as the UK did less against it. This was all handled in the treaties with the new members when they entered. But as I said, that is totally different issue to people from outside of the EU (Brazilian, Croatians etc.) coming to work in an EU member state. Those regulations are simply down to the countries themselves. The UK does have strict regulations while other have more lenient regulations that especially benefit the clubs to sign players from non-EU nations. As I said this has absolutely nothing to do with EU legislation and its interpretation. The UK would be totally free to change their work permit regulations regarding non-EU nationals as they like it. I am not going to debate this issue on this site as it is a football site and others will get fed up with it. However, your being involved with the Legal profession does not mean you are automatically correct - the trouble with Lawyers is that they are more interested in the LETTER of the Law than the SPIRIT of it.. I am fully aware of the UK's interpretation of these rules - the question you haven't addressed is WHY the UK's politicians interpret them that way - and apart from Brazilians etc, these rules apply to COMMONWEALTH Citizens, many of whom are related to British people....

It has absolutely nothing to do with "stupid EU legislation" that gets ignored by others. EU legislation doesn't affect non-EU nationals and is simply down to the national states. I've got news for you - EU Legislation DOES affect other nationalities - why do you think people from Eastern Europe can work in the UK AND get benefits there, when people whose relatives actually came from the place and are treated as Aliens at UK Airports ! You are right about ONE thing and I made that point in my first post - its down to INTERPRETATION by National states - and that is dictated by politicians... I don't know whether you are British or not, but if so, you are about to lose many of the qualities of being a nation due to the new EU Constitution - nothing like being ruled by Foreign, unaccountable bureaucrats, is there...!!??

I can tell you that 10 years ago, I did a project for the club to open an Academy in Australia. There would have been many benefits(we would probably had players like Cahill for nothing),but the first thing Sir John was worried about was the Work Permit thing. I had to explain to him that we could get round it by selecting kids who either had British relatives or had been born in the UK, and so could get dual-nationality(this would also have applied to any kids who had parents from EU countries too). Sir John had to step down before we could take this ahead, and Fletcher etc put the project on the back-burner. A journalist told Fergie about the plan, and, had Sky been successful in taking over Manure in 98, they would have done it themselves...... As it happens, Manure have just invited a young kid from Oz(he's 9) to attend their UK Academy in due course.I've seen film of this kid, and he's brilliant - really skilful. I know these kids can drop off, but if he makes it, watch out for Manure setting up their own Academy in Australia......

The whole thing is a joke - look at the circumstances of, say, Dede, who might have a problem if we signed him ; look at how Ronaldo got to play in Holland long before he had 20 caps for Brazil, and how Dutch , German & French clubs get hold of players from outside the EU LONG before they would be allowed in the UK. This is all because the British Govt stick to stupid EU legislation when the others ignore it... WHY ? Because the politicians all wnat to get on the EU Gravy Train and don't want to upset people like the French who run it.... All this applies far more to stuff outside Football, but the problems with Work Permits are all part of the syndrome. The Pollies pretend its to safeguard jobs in Football, but they don't bother about 'safeguarding jobs' when they allow millions of unskilled workers in from EU countries - but then , they are being 'Good Europeans' aren't they...!!??

One thing I'd like to thank Dyer for is his honesty & transparency - both were evident in his expression of utter disdain for the Management and fans of Newcastle United by his holding the Captain's armband like a piece of used Bog roll and chucking it on the deck when substituted . That, more than any of the other appalling episodes in which he dragged down both his own and the Club's name , summed him up for me and to even GIVE him the Captain's armband in the first place insulted the fans. When you think of some of the players that were genuinely proud , not just to wear the B & W shirt, but honoured to be captain(Joe Harvey, Bobby Moncur etc) it shows the extent of the club's decline that someone so shallow could be given the honour. Bet he isn't injured half as much at W.Ham... This day should have arrived 4 years ago.

This is a brilliant posting ; the standard of journalism - esp Sports journalism - is absolutely crap in the UK. They spin so many pathetic stories that you would imagine they would make a better living by writing Fairy Tales.I reckon this all started back in the 80s when we had that ridiculous story about Socrates(Brazil star in 82 WC)joining us.... The whole lot of them are a lazy set of prats - all they want to do is get a nice quote(failing which they'll make something up)and the p--- off to the pub for the afternoon(most of them are almost alkies). I expected something like this to happen once Ashley took over, simply because of 2 factors; 1.He is a person who doesn't give interviews, and these journos need feeding.. 2.Quite a few of them are perfectly happy with the 'status quo' of the current top 4, and they know that if we ever get our act together, we will gatecrash it. Whilst Dalglish had his faults, he was a better judge of a player than many managers we've had(think about Hamman, Nobby, Given - all signed by him when we had access to decent funds - the ones like Barnes, Rush etc were because he wasn't given funds at that time). Even though he had a problem with Shearer's injury & Sir Les being sold(a corporate decision), he didn't complain and was popular with the players, but the PRESS hated him - they were used to preferential treatment by KK and Dalglish didn't trust them and was obtuse with his comments, so they had it in for him. He got NO credit for re-introducing the Reserves & Youth system which KK had scrapped, and they just wanted him out. He wasn't the manager we thought he would be, but if ever anyone had a bad press, he did. If they get it in for you, they can make a lot of trouble, and they will continue to produce articles like this - NUFC has always been a feast of rumour & speculation but as one of their more infamous brethren usually says , these are usually 'WIDE OF THE MARK !!'... Clearly, we all want some action to strengthen the squad in defence - I just think they are refusing to pay what they consider over-the-odds prices & wages to players trying to hold us to ransom(which they can because there is a dearth of good players). If that is true, it will be a difficult season - we may have to bite the bullet for a while - time will tell.

It's Melissa Theroux (SP), French news reader extraordinaire. Nice try, it's Theuriau. Whatever her name, I admire your taste, Mick...! Getting a bit long in the tooth(and don't have the necessary money!)to be chasing talent like this, but she's a stunner right enough - I'll have to start taking more Emu Oil.....!!

I think this is the crucial point - the club AND KK have both moved on now - if Allardyce is to succeed or fail it should be under the circumstances that he personally is comfortable with. He is already working for a new regime - it would be different if he & KK had worked together before ; however you dress it up, Director of Football means that the manager is virtually responsible to him - a tricky situation unless ALL are happy with it... Definitely think its too late for KK to return as manager again, and as some have pointed out, there are personality problems - in addition, if Ashley wishes to develop the Academy side of things, he will find that KK is not a great believer in that - remember how he scrapped the Reserves and wound down the Youth team..? His views on younger players were the reason some left. Chris Macmenemy said that Keegan got rid of the reserves because our squad was so small as we'd just got promoted. Don't know where Mcmenemy is getting THAT from, Mick - it was in the summer of 96 when KK decided to scrap the Reserves because of having to play at least 6 games at SJP during a season - he said he didn't want more games on the pitch... We got promoted in the Spring of '93........

I think this is the crucial point - the club AND KK have both moved on now - if Allardyce is to succeed or fail it should be under the circumstances that he personally is comfortable with. He is already working for a new regime - it would be different if he & KK had worked together before ; however you dress it up, Director of Football means that the manager is virtually responsible to him - a tricky situation unless ALL are happy with it... Definitely think its too late for KK to return as manager again, and as some have pointed out, there are personality problems - in addition, if Ashley wishes to develop the Academy side of things, he will find that KK is not a great believer in that - remember how he scrapped the Reserves and wound down the Youth team..? His views on younger players were the reason some left.

What a joke ! Its a bit rich for the likes of him to whinge about loyalty etc etc, when he had none towards others(except, of course, his son & 'friends'... He insulted the fans, women of the North-East and one of the World's best Centre-Forwards..... He alienated the club from many of its admirers.. He wouldn't have been ANYWHERE NEAR the SJP Boardroom if it hadn't been for being pally with Sir John's son ; he didn't have the personal wealth to mount a takeover from McKeag & Co himself. He should be grateful he's ended-up with more money than he would ever have seen otherwise - esp after the shambles he created over the past 3 years. It will be a really hard job to get the club anywhere near to the position it was in when he took over as Chairman.. Just disappear into the ether, you sad individual - not worthy of further discussion.

Think its a big ask to think about anything other than 6-7 at this point - in fact, without some new defenders of decent quality, even higher than 10th may be beyond us. Its not that there isn't quality - there is ; forwards look good(but suspect to injury),midfield has plenty of options when Barton is fit although we will need to replace Dire - I do expect Troisi to be the dark horse that breaks into the first team this year and with him plus Geremi's versatility, we should be OK there. Its in defence where the problems are - full-backs both need replacement, and Taylor worries me - he is starting to look injury-prone so we could really do with Campbell alongside Rozenhal - Edgar & Huntington will understudy the first choices. However, should we get some decent defenders in and get off to a good start, we just might surprise a few people, but staying clear of injuries is critical with a thin squad. Will go for 7th behind the usual Top4, Spurs & Everton or Portsmouth - but I wouldn't put money on it as injuries could just as easily result in 10th.

I've gone on record here as saying there wil be a different approach to transfers(and most other things!)at the club now, and I still stand by that - i would rather everything was done on the quiet and announced when its in the bag.Also, i believe, as i've said before, that changing the club(AND its image with top players)will take time. Having said that, there are a couple of things which do concern me slightly over the current situation. I find it strange that Allardyce should be hinting quite so openly that in effect, his hands are tied with signing players - this can only mean one of two things ; either Allardyce ISN'T getting the necessary cash, OR he has found it difficult to sign the players he actually wants - it may even be a mix of the two... If he ISN'T getting the cash, then the situation is slightly worrying, because there can only be one conclusion - that he doesn't have the full confidence of either Ashley or Mort. The problem with this situation is that it will lead to an impasse in building the team. esp this season. We have to remember that Sam was NOT Ashley's man, he was Shepherd's - Ashley has inherited the situation and in my view, he has no alternative , at this point, but to persevere with the situation. My biggest fear is that Ashley MAY be thinking that Dein will leave Arsenal, come to NUFC as CE, and bring Wenger with him - with Ashley being VERY successful in business, you would hope that he isn't going along this track because unless he has cast-iron assurances from the people involved, I would bet that Dein will end up back at Arsenal after a takeover - where would that leave NUFC as the season draws on...!!?? On the other hand, if Sam has found it difficult to sign the players he really wants - and that wouldn't be a surprise to me - maybe this is a way of keeping the pressure off him AND the Board by using the Financial review to excuse lack of money... No-one should under-estimate the size of the task ahead for all at the club - we have fallen far from grace, and other , previously viewed as 'smaller' clubs than us, now have big money too... Finally - if there IS any back-sliding on funds at THIS TIME(I don't believe this will be club policy - Ashley is too shrewd NOT to back his investment), it should stop - the team needs 3 or 4 players even to have a DECENT season(our defence needs reinforcements), and finishing outside the top 8 would be viewed by all as a disappointment.Whether the BIG money comes now or later is immaterial - what is important is PROGRESS this season, so the big funds can be splashed next... Its important not to panic, but an awareness of what needs to be done - even if it means spending 15-20m - is paramount for confidence of the fans - they have seen too many false dawns.

From NUFC I reckon Geoff Allen would have been one of the best Left wingers in the game - only older fans will remember him. He was a bit of a late developer, really blossoming aged 21 against Feyenoord in our first Fairs Cup game at SJP- he took Van Der Heide, Feyenoord's international right back, to the cleaners that night ; his twists & turns, acceleration & crossing were the architects of our amazing 4-0 win. He was hammered down by Peter Hindley, Notts Forest R/back at the City ground not much later that season - the side were winning 4-1, and Hindley couldn't cope with Allen. His Cruciate ligaments were damaged(a'la Gazzer), and in 1968, that was it. He tried to come back at least twice, but it was no good - 20 years later, it could have been different.. Went to his Testimonial and he still looked great that night, but he was in real pain after every game. Joe Harvey always said it was the club's greatest loss.

This. People didn't simply turn on him because of that, Dyer had a lot of detractors way before the Robson incident. The reason being that his performances never matched the hype. Dyer strolled his way through long parts of seasons living off his “promising youngster” reputation and the imaginary transfer to Leeds. His lifestyle and personal choices don’t exactly make him appealing to most supporters. He alone sums up our failures as a club in the past 10 years. A serial injury prone underachiever who is on ridiculously high wages, yet produces virtually no end product. Someone loves the celebrity lifestyle and took advantage of those who helped him get to where he was. Despite all the money and the all the potential he and we as a club have done nothing since he joined. Top Post - sums it all up.

Its all very well to laugh.....! Here in Australia, Emu Oil(NOT S---)has been used by the Aborigines for years, both as a treatment for aches/pains etc and other ailments. In fact, I buy it from a guy who breeds them about 20 miles away - he is in his 80's and uses a drop on his breakfast every day - it has reduced his cholesterol from 6.3 to 3.8(this happened within 2 months of taking the stuff).His face & skin have very few wrinkles, so I've started doing the same(not EVERY day, mind..!!)and no probs so far. Sam might just be on to something here - at the very least, it will give Dyer one less excuse for not being fit....!!

There may yet be someone signed who warrants the job - lets wait & see...

I just wish everyone would forget about Beckham AND his ridiculous wife - if ever we needed someone NOT to represent English Football its him (AND her). Most overrated England Captain of all time in my opinion, would not even have got into 66 side if he had been available then. Would never have attained the number of caps he has if ; a) Someone other than Eriksson had been manager b)There had been a greater choice of English players Should never have played in 2004 Euro Champs - was a disgrace. I bet the Yanks soon suss them both out...

Couldn't agree more with this, however, the buck always stops at someone. Now it is the owner. I don't know if Ashley will be your chairman or will appoint someone else, but Lerner is ours, so strictly speaking our chairman can't be sacked. He doesn't report to anyone but himself, has no shareholders to consider, and does what he wants. For us, Ellis did the same in practise, but even with his sycophant and relative-stuffed board, and other shareholders, there was at least *some* element of control. With people like Ashley or Lerner, I don't think we have any real reason to be overly suspicious of their motives. The worst they can realistically want to do is make money ... and to be honest, in our case, any Villa fan who doesn't think that the first thing Lerner thought when he started buying the club was "f****** hell, that's way undervalued" is naive. What is now apparent in our support, and I am intrigued by your situation, is that further down the line, we now have a situation where we're so f****** relieved to be rid of the old guard, and the new guard are looking excellent in (almost) all they have done, that there is a culture of "how dare you complain, how f****** ungrateful" which surpresses anyone criticising or questioning the new regime, however valid or constructive that criticism. Faith is excellent, blind faith is naive and dangerous, and that, for me, is why we need to maintain this healthy scepticism. Would agree with most of this, Brummie.

I reckon everyone is just going to have to get used to a very different attitude at NUFC now. Ashley has a reputation for doing things quietly and keeping a low profile whereas NUFC has always been a high-profile club - for the WRONG reasons.That has been all too clear to most fans during the past 3 years... It IS frustrating when you see other Clubs signing good players, but look what happened at Villa when they got taken over last year. The time to worry is if we start the season with no MORE new signings, esp in defence - there is no doubt we will be weak there, but if we get 3 more decent defenders, we should be OK ; not Top 4 material, but OK; the squad is too weak at present if we get injuries. Personally, I am sick of hearing the club linked with this player & that player without any real foundation in the rumour - it will be much better if we get back to the situation we had when KK was in charge ; they went out & signed someone without the Press etc knowing it was coming(Andy Cole, Tino, Batty, Shearer etc). I've always thought this season would not be a dramatic transformation, but as long as progress is being made(we DO need at least UEFA Football at the end of it), I will be reasonably satisfied - anything less than that will be disappointing.

All this is VERY VERY interesting - I sincerely hope that ALL the guilty parties(if any, of course..!!)are exposed and receive the appropriate punishment for any activities which may have resulted in loss of money to both fans & shareholders.. I really look forward to hearing some on this site trying to defend culprits, should there be any - I believe there has been some interesting behind-the-scenes activity since Mort took over... If we ever get to know the full story(which I doubt)its going to make brilliant reading ! It looks like there may still be some justice in this world....

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? Yes - I'm PRESUMING - just as I'm PRESUMING that the sun will come up tomorrow..! None of us know that for a fact, but its a reasonable assumption - just as reasonable as assuming that a VERY successful modern businessman, who has just paid a king's ransom for a football club with prospects, will allow his managers to do the job themselves - failure to do so will result in the sack but I am willing to bet that Ashley WILL allow Allardyce a crack of the whip...its a matter of personal opinion whether you think he will be better than Shepherd - I happen to think he WILL, but you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - WHICH IS...! you have the same faith in Ashley as in the Sun coming up? I think that says it all tbh It doesn't actually say ANYTHING other than what is written there, Mr Kent Man ! YOU can't guarantee that the Sun will rise any more than I can guarantee Ashley's success - you go to bed EXPECTING you will get a sunrise, but as sure as hell one day there WON'T be... This is probably the only time I'll reply directly to one of your posts - you spend a great deal of time winding people up on this site but I've got better things to do than get involved with pratting about in tit-for-tat exchanges with you or anyone else on here ; you've got your opinion - that's fine by me ; I've got mine... We'll soon see what Ashley does - if you really ARE a fan of NUFC, you'd better hope its going to be better than before - or would you prefer to see Shepherd in total charge once again....!??

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind. Eh. believe it or not we were. We hae never liked Pareira or his team, in fact the 94 champions was elected as Brazils worst team ever to play in a World Cup. Brazil have the two best teams of all time the 1970 world champions and the 2002 world champions. Its a fact! '58 was better than them both. No they were not my friend. 1982 was supposed to be best team with at that time best players in the world like Falcao, Socrates and Zico. Oh god, what a team they had. Problem was they only attacked attacked and attacked. They lost to Italy because they couldnt play defensive football and cause Dino Zoff was a monster that day. 1970 was though the proof that magic does exist. 58' team was good no doubt with players like Vava, Pele (only 17 years old) and Garrincha (better then Maradona and all these other guys, even Pele i would say). 2002 was the example of a team which grew by everygame and had a brilliant attacking football as well as a modern day built defence with big and stron but also technical defenders. COACHHTT/// Honestly ive never heard that much b***s*** in my life. Africa will never overtake Brazil, remember that Africa for many years have been using false info for their players during Olympic games. theyre all 4 years older then what you think. Martins is 28 remember Some great points here, Felipao - agree with nearly all of this. TOTALLY agree with your assertion that Africa will never overtake Brazil - this has been an old chestnut for years(ever since 74 when Zaire qualified)and all the pundits have been saying this at every WC since - we're still waiting, and we still will be in 20 years' time....!! I'm a great admirer of Brazilian football & hope they always try to play as they can - its great to watch!

And now for the core question of this thread, do you KNOW this for a FACT or are you, as I suspect, just PRESUMING..? Yes - I'm PRESUMING - just as I'm PRESUMING that the sun will come up tomorrow..! None of us know that for a fact, but its a reasonable assumption - just as reasonable as assuming that a VERY successful modern businessman, who has just paid a king's ransom for a football club with prospects, will allow his managers to do the job themselves - failure to do so will result in the sack but I am willing to bet that Ashley WILL allow Allardyce a crack of the whip...its a matter of personal opinion whether you think he will be better than Shepherd - I happen to think he WILL, but you, of course, are entitled to your own opinion - WHICH IS...!

Said before - not going to be easy to get the really good players ; I understand how impatient fans are to see some really decent signings, but you just have to look at what has happened so far - only Man U & Liverpool have really made a few top class signings and this is because ;- a) they are in a more settled situation than NUFC right now b) they are perceived by players as clubs going places. Does anyone honestly believe that we could have competed for either Torres or Babel against Liverpool at this time ? No, thought not - and yet, 5 years ago we were perceived as the club with better prospects... It will take hard graft & time before we are in that position again - if ever, although we have to believe we can do it....the last 3 years have left NUFC's reputation in tatters and even before THAT we hadn't won anything since 1969 - players look at those things when making decisions about where to go ; those of you who don't want 'results-based' football should remember that when ANOTHER top player goes elsewhere...