merlin

This is a pointless debate - NEITHER of these guys would even LOOK at NUFC as a job in the present situation. You actually ought to be debating who would even TAKE the job at all.. The man whose team defeated us on Thursday would have been tempted some years ago, but I doubt that he would now. Cannot see Roeder surviving beyond this season, but best hope for a replacement is possibly someone like Houllier - not my preferred candidate, but the best the club is likely to get.

If you believe that, you'll believe anything - Shepherd doesn't need ANYONE to jold him back from running the Club properly - he's quite capable of doing that on his own...

Some members of the Magpie Group(including myself)would have liked the club to try for Van Gaal after KK resigned, but he was virtually on his way to Barcelona at the time.Strangely enough, SBR was in charge at the Nou Camp then, and SJH asked him to come to SJP to take over.Robson knew that Barca were after Van Gaal, but wouldn't resign.He was sacked shortly afterwards, and we had appointed Dalglish by then. I think the guy would, overall, do a good job at SJP - he is very knowledgeable about the game and his experience/trophies speak for themselves. If he has a weakness, it is that he IS very attack-minded when caution may be a better option, but many NUFC fans are like that. Also, many players are not exactly cerebral, and his tactics may go over the heads of some of our squad(no names mentioned..!!!) He would NOT tolerate any interference from the boardroom etc., so I cannot see him being at the top of the Chairman's list to replace GR, and if the club finishes in the top 10 after reaching the semis of the UEFA, GR will still be there next year...... In summary, an interesting idea, but one that doesn't look likely at present.

Eh? People are calling him a fat aussie because he's fat and from Australia, not because we think all Australians are fat. Also, you might be interested to know that Australia isn't in Europe. He'd have been extremely poor value for money if we'd have signed him and if that was also at the expense of Milner going as well, that would have been a disgrace. Australia not in Europe? I would never have guessed....!! Tell you what, son, I'll let you into a secret.....THAT IS WHY I MOVED THERE ! Don't want to be run by a bunch of unelected parasites form the EU - YOU pay their Road Tolls, Recycling taxes if you want...I don't. And as for sticking up for them - I'm merely reporting what was stated in a UK NEWSPAPER(NO Not the Chronicle..!!).

Viduka would have been a great signing, but NOT at the expense of Milner going. Viduka is great at holding up the ball and laying it off - would have benefitted the likes of Martins and Owen(once fit). He also gets a decent number of goals, some of which are skilfully-taken. As for those calling him a 'Fat Aussie', let me remind you that the UK OFFICIALLY has the largest waistlines in Europe...methinks the pot is calling the kettle here !

Agreed - has pace, a good shot and can jump well for small striker, BUT - cannot control the ball quickly enough,does not have the mobility to pull defenders out of place, looks disinterested at times.Will always get a few goals, but will NEVER ne atop striker like Henry, Shearer etc.

The way things are going at SJP, the club have about as much chance of signing Tevez as they have of getting Ronaldinho,Henry,Ashton et al - i.e. NO Chance. Tevez is still young and has great talent but it will probably take a move to Spain to see the best of him. People like Huntelaar are also complete non-starters ; get used to it - NUFC are now seen as second-raters and will be scrapping amongst the rest of the also-rans for top class players. I would bet that we wouldn't even win a contest with Allardyce over a proposed signing, let alone O'Neill - that's how far the club has dropped in 4 years . P.S.Changed my mind over Ashton - we MIGHT have a chance, but only if he looks like carrying his ankle injury for a long time....! Remember the comments of Hamman, when asked why he left Newcastle -'The Board was average, so the Club was average...'

AGREED !!!

Shepherd must be thrilled - at least TWO Season Tickets he's sure of selling....

Those with a brain knew he was not the answer before he was appointed full-time - NUFC fans are too easily satisfied and put up with anything the Club dishes out to them. The Chairman wanted Roeder because he would fit in with his plans - nothing else. No point in sacking him until season is over at the earliest - even then, it will be very hard to find a quality replacement - the Chairman's reputation goes before him..... Unless a boycott forces Shepherd out(as likely as me winning the Lottery, and I don't buy a ticket.!) only a takeover will change anything. The club is in a real mess now, and next season will not be much better - AND the Mackems are coming up.... Roeder or Keane - which will it be !!

Any pretence (or effort) to being a club aiming at the top 6 of the Prem disappeared in the summer of 2003 when Robson was refused cash to build on a successful Champs League campaign. You can use your own judgement to assess the reasons why this happened(I have my own views...). The choice of a successor to SBR was woeful, and done in desperation(a successor should have been lined up months previously, and SBR moved upstairs). The repercussions of this decision will be felt for many years(we've already had 2) - the only solution is a complete takeover of the Club, and no-one seems willing to pick up THAT poisoned chalice(too much debt). Roeder's team selections have been poor and lacking in courage(what can one expect ? He's there to suit the Chairman), so up & down results will always happen in such circumstances. The current side's results are similar to those of the 70s teams - WITHOUT the entertainment ! We would beat Leeds Utd(top dogs of the day) one week, lose to Stoke/Sts/Leicester etc the next. Also, we were hopeless away from home, but would get the OCCASIONAL shock win(like the one at Spurs this season).....see any parallels!! Fans kept turning up, but eventually, Cup humiliations forced Joe Harvey out and Lee came in. People knocked him, but he got the Club to the Final of the L/Cup(v Man City) and the quarters of the FA Cup despite the team being hit by a Flu epidemic at the time. The team had a good team spirit, and scored plenty of goals.The following season, we were doing well in the league(even after Macdonald was sold), but the Board refused Lee the money to replace Supermac(he wanted Francis), and when Everton came calling, Lee was off. Player Power brought Dinnis in, and although it was the Chairman who wanted Roeder, the situation is now the same - except for the fact that Dinnis took over a winning side which qualified for Europe.He wasn't backed by the board over signing - guess who!? - Graeme Souness from M/Bro, and Souness went to L/Pool. A pity - he would have been much more use as a player than he was as a manager... However, until JH came along in the late 80s, we WERE mediocre - two relegations(1978/1989), two promotions(1984/1993 - after JH's takeover & KK coming in). Mediocrity has been the standard at NUFC for most of the past 40 years - only from 1993 until 2003 have the club been anything like a force in the game - despite its large fan-base - and thsi will continue - sadly - for the forseeable future. Being 'top dog' in the NE seems to be all that many fans care about - until they become more demanding and withold cash(i.e don't go) Fred will remain and pick up the cash.IF all you want is a day out on Saturday - fine - its your choice.Misplaced loyalty will NOT bring an end to mediocrity, so get used to it. One day, things may change,but its not going to happen yet.

Keane has done well, and will, I think, keep them up if they get promoted - as for becoming NE top dogs, well, its not such a demanding task, is it !? We may not like Keane but he HAS determination, AND a better Chairman that Roeder...! Both qualities would be enough, given a season or so, to give them Top Dog status. Should a takeover happen at SJP within a year or so, things would then be very different...... As for Mowbray - I'm a great fan of the guy. Would have been happy to see him replace Souness, has done a great job at Hibs, and looks like repeating it at WBA. Met him once, impressed by his honesty, knowledge, and down-to-earth attitiude - will be astonished if he doesn't make a top manager.If I was taking over NUFC, he would definitely be on the list of potential managers.

Would take Ashton like a shot IF his fitness proves to be OK following the ankle injury - Kewell was never the same player after his....Ashton would be a great foil for either Martins OR Owen, though rumours persist about whether one or either of them will still be at SJP next season. Distin would be a good signing for little money, and a decent Left Back is a MUST; Carr/Babayaro to be moved on, more chance given to Edgar - also think Troisi may come through next season, so maybe Emre will go.

Agree with this totally - its just plain stupid to blame kids for wanting to support these other teams/players.At one time, there was a possibility of NUFC becoming as big as any in the land(AND most in Europe), but those days have gone now, and probably for ever. The last few years of mismanagement have occurred at a time when the top 4 clubs were becoming virtually unchallengeable due to the money they were receiving from their success, and like it or not, money and success are what people want in this day & age. Kids get far too much in my opinion - all this crap about 'Peer pressure' etc is just down tp lazy & weak parents not being able to tell a child 'NO', so they get most of what they want materially. Its not good for anyone and makes people very selfish, but to expect them to suddenly be automatic fans of a club which has not won a trophy for 38 years and has suffered humiliation on and off the field, when they get 'the best' in other areas of life is like expecting a fox to keep chickens as pets ! Life has moved on guys - wake up & smell the coffee.Be honest - if you bought a decent holiday & got crap accomm., you'd be on to the Company like a shot.Likewise, if you have a decent motor and it starts giving trouble, you'd(rightly)be complaining bitterly to the Dealer and expect it put right. People have more choices than ever now, in every walk of life - trying to sell a vision of 'Gang Loyalty' doesn't work anymore, and the sooner Shepherd & Co realise this, the better it will be - I just hope its not too late, but I wouldn't bet on things changing soon as there now appears to be no hope of change on the horizon.

I really don't believe that Roeder would be so stupid. That kind of comment would inevitably backfire if he knew it wasn't true. This has Shepherd's fingerprints all over it. I don't expect the club to buy players, but I do expect honesty. don't think Shepherd has been honest to either fans or manager. You're expecting Shepherd to be HONEST with the fans...!!?

Kevin Keegan dramatically revived fortunes of the club, by saving NUFC from relegation to third tier of English football, and then bringing us in next few seasons to the very brink of winning Premier League title. Without him and Sir John Hall, Sir Bobby Robson wouldn't even have a chance to do much for the club, as without him our position would be so much different. Still, Keegan's fame will be overshadowed to some extent if any NUFC manager succeeds in winning either PL or FA Cup in this decade or early in the next one. Sir Bobby Robson is no doubt a true legend, but in most part not for what he did as NUFC manager. Remember too, that SBR was also asked to become manager by Lord Westwood in 1975, to replace the retiring Joe Harvey. Robson was at Ipswich then, but despite his being a 'dyed-in-the-wool' Black & White, he refused. This was at a time when he could have really done well - he was only 42 then. However, Lord Westwood & Co had a bad reputation for lack of genuine ambition(selling top players), so no doubt that had some bearing on Robson's refusal and you can understand that. I have less sympathy with his refusal to take the job after SJH asked him when KK left - he said that it was due to his sense of loyalty to Barca, but everyone and his Uncle knew that Barca were going to replace him with Van Gaal - I reckon Bobby wanted the contract pay-off , but that was his decision.What is indisputable is that we would have been in a much better state at that time, he was a few years younger - there was a load of money for players, and I reckon we might just have grabbed the title within a year or so. There is no doubt he did a very good job during his first 4 years, even though he DID make some poor value signings, but he should have gone gracefully at the end of 2003/4 - had lost the Dressing Room and the Club needed a strong(but RESPECTED!)new broom - NOT Souness. SBR definitely among top 3 NUFC managers of all time, but that is not saying much - he was at his best before he arrived.

It would be interesting to hear the views of those who saw most of these returnees as to whether their second spell was as good as the first ; the only one who really stands out for me was Beardsley - had a great second spell at the club under KK. Hibbitt was a limited success, John Craggs hardly played after he signed again. Terry Mac was also reasonable, but not as good as when he played at the Club between 71-74. Elliott nowhere near his best on the second stint(too many injuries).

That's a great post Mick - Agree totally.

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources. By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them. Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks. This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally. Agree with most of what you say, but the title of this thread is a comparison between Roeder & O'Neill, not Roeder/O'Neill & Allardyce.

Lets just see if you still bring this up in a year's time- I will be VERY interested to see who sticks their head above the parapet then ; O'Neill has had virtually NO money to spend yet, but he will have in summer. This is not the time to judge - running a club is a marathon, not a sprint and it takes at least 1-2 years to build a decent side. O'Neill went into Villa very late in the close season, with no time to make a full stab at his own signings. If he is STILL below us at the end of NEXT season, maybe you have a point - and as for Roeder, lets wait until this season is over before making any lionising claims for him.In my opinion, Pearson has been the reason for our recent change in fortune.

To be honest, the best looking option for NUFC right now is to take a gamble on 3 players - Distin, Neill and Upson.I know Neill/Distin are free agents in summer, but LFC are after Neill, and it is better for us to test Blackburn with a bid right now, as we won't have a chance in summer. These guys sre not the best possible players in their positions, but are capable of filling other positions, i.e Neill can play at CB as he proved in the WC, so would be able to cover in the event of injuries. I believe Distin can also slot in at LB, so that also would help out. If Viduka could be signed for a minimal fee(WITHOUT any sort of trade involving Milner) I would go for him too, as I believe he would take the weight off Martins, and be a great target for Milner's crosses - he is very good at holding the ball too. These players would, I believe, give us a real chance of at least qualifying for the UEFA, and maybe better in terms of siverware provided we can get past Brum. I reckon we could do the lot for for around 10m, and recoup some by selling Emre to Bayern. probably a total outlay of 6m.

There are two things about this rumour which are quite astonishing - one is the fact that NUFC need defenders desperately, esp full-backs, the other is that there is ANY chance of Milner being sacrificed. Phillips has proved incapable of getting into Chelsea's side, whilst JM has come on in leaps and bounds since he went to Villa on loan.Milner is 21 and going to play for England in the near future - Phillips has had his chance, and would not get into the England side in front of Milner at this time - and Milner is about 4 or 5 years younger. Duff also was incapable of getting into Chelsea's team and we bought him - to what result!!?? Do you seriously want a repeat of this situation with Phillips ? Does anyone on this site seriously believe that if Milner was to go to, say Villa, that he wouldn't continue to improve under MON ?? I have said before that the problem with NUFC is that there is no consistent PLAN ro BUILD A SIDE - we have got at least 2 top-class wingers in Milner & N'Zogbia, and NO DECENT FULLBACKS... How often does it have to happen before someone gets the message ? We were doing this back in the 70's, only then it was Central defenders we needed in order to finish off a potentially good side. We are not exactly flush with CDs today, but fullbacks are a desperate need, yet there we are looking to change a position which already looks in good shape, whilst ignoring 2 that are hopeless. Ho Hum......

We had a spell of signing promising youngsters when SBR was in charge(Milner was one) and at that stage, we were still looked upon as a good bet for them to join - in the top 5 of the Prem, playing good football, Shearer still there etc. etc. The old saying 'any mud thrown always sticks' comes to mind - NUFC has degenerated so much in reputation over the past 3 years that players like Bale will always pick Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc ahead of us if given the chance, so it is basically a waste of time trying to get into an auction against those clubs if they want the same player. Only stability & success on the field will change this, and these 2 things will be a long time coming, so NUFCs only real hope is to keep developing its OWN youngsters - that's why Academies were so important to us, and should have merited prime consideration; you can't sign players outside the window either, which makes life difficult - in 1971, we signed Terry Mac from Bury, and the first time I saw him v Liverpool, it was obvious he was going to be a great player.He was right on the Scousers' doorstep too, and we pinched him because our scouts were quicker to the punch(he was only 20,000 pounds - imagine how much a similar youngster would cost today..!).Had the Transfer Window system been in place then, we may not have got him because they would have more time to assess the player.Don't forget, he was also a Scouser, so would probably have chosen them if given the choice.As it was, they had to pay us 175,000 for him in 1974 - big money in those days. The Transfer Window system is biased in the favour of big, lazy Clubs - little Clubs with good Scouting systems cannot beat them to the punch as easily now.

Yes, hat-trick against the Gunners on his debut - was 17 at the time, I believe. Did you guys know we actually made a bid for him at the same time Blackburn/Man U were in for him !?? I saw Sir John at M&S in the MetroCentre just before Shearer signed for Dalglish and he told me we had bid just over 3m for Shearer, but he knew it wouldn't come off - we were in the First Div at the time, although it WAS our Promotion season, but Shearer wanted to stay in the Prem, and he has said he didn't find out about the Newcastle bid because the manager of Saints was Ian Branfoot, a self-confessed Mackem....no-one is saying Branfoot deliberately kept it from him until it was too late, but you do wonder... Had he signed for us then, Andy Cole would probably not have been bought... Physically, he didn't properly develop until he was 21, but was much quicker before his injuries and was very strong at Blackburn ; once saw him shrug off Steve Bruce and leave the rest for dead before scoring his side's second goal to defeat Man U in 1994/95 - a goal which enabled them to win the Prem as it turned out.