Lotus

You know, we needn't get personal in these debates. Everybody wants the same thing and sometime all people are arguing over is semantics with their basic points being the same. Other times it's just different people thinking there are different ways of achieving the same ultimate goal, different paths up the mountain and all that.

Bit more camaraderie wouldn't go amiss....

Benitez's team AND bench choice yesterday made me think he wanted lose!!!

A strong Liverpool side could've taken Chelsea last night, they'd have been the 1st team in quite a while to win at Stamford Bridge.

Tony Yeboah

I hope Mort refuses to release the funds.

 

That's the kind of stuff NE5 has a field day with.

 

If the manager wants him then so be it. £8m seems a lot though.

Yeah, reminds me of the Carrick/Butt situation tbh....

To answer NE5,

No idea if the new Board will be 'better' than the old. I believe the old Board did well enough to earn the right to make a few mistakes and were unfairly viewed by some fans. They appointed some good managers and backed them (not SBR straight away though which is point i keep making and you keep avoiding). They appointed some sh*te and backed them too.

Your view is biased though, no matter what you say. You were happy enough when we appointed Roeder, a relegation specialist, because you could understand the club wanting to do something 'different.' He only bought £15m worth of players, SA has bought more than that already. You can't retort that it wasn't prudent to let Roeder spend more because your opinion is that if you appoint a man you must back him, i.e. Dalgleish, Gullit and Souness.

Maybe this is the club trying something 'different' again, trying to start with youth as heavy investment in the 1st team hasn't cemented us a place in the top 4/6.

Do you really think that we'd be challenging for a CL place with SA as manager and FS as chairman? Because that's the only criteria you're using to judge the new Board so you must have believed we'd be in the hunt this seaason if FS had stayed.

Fwiw, i would like to see more spent on the 1st team in January but the players SA wants must be available for the right money, that's life! You don't always get the players you want, when you want. Sometimes you have to build a little slower. SBR wanted Zenden iirc but he didn't want to come and we bought Robert, Bellamy instead of Jeffers, etc.

Personally i think a better time to judge where we are heading will be at the close of the August 08 window.

I know we all want the same thing, and i hope we all get it.

NE5,

You wanted SA as manager, i thought he deserved a chance at a bigger club and was happy enough that that was us.

The manager decides who to buy and sell, you've always said this so lets stick by that.

SA has spent a fair bit on Enrique, Barton and Smith.

SBR wasn't given a huge kitty start with iirc, he splashed out a bit more when he'd improved us with what we had plus a few cheaper players like Gallacher, etc.

Someone else mentioned Freddie's net spend in his first 6 months was £3-4m compared £10m (??) for Mort and arguably we were in a tighter spot financially 6 months ago.

This is no time to make judgements on anyone, the new board or the new manager as neither have been disasterous if you're honest.

Someone who has been "away" for a few weeks has set about ruining this forum again immediately on his return.

 

The people who ruin the forum are those who automatically post negatively against the opinion of certain individuals (not just NE5) based on who is making the post rather than the content of the post. If people would get their head out of their arse and read what he's posting they will find it makes sense.

 

EG If you seriously believe that under the previous board, major decisions were made by one individual acting alone, then you (and others) are frankly a bit dim. I appreciate there is a dilemma here for some. Admitting that big decisions were made by a group of people is obviously going to mean some people can't continue with their childish pastime of slating one individual for everything.

 

Think about it, before you blurt something out....

Agree completely fwiw. However i'm intrigued by certain posters questioning Mort's ambition, as if he were the only to do with the club who made any kind of decisions whatsoever.

Apparantly Sam is monitoring him. No link, just word of mouth.

 

Thoughts?

 

the path to glory is full of cheap youngsters and foreigners, I'm sure we are on the right path here, it isn't as if all the other successful clubs don't follow this path, and we haven't signed top quality youngsters before from Ipswich.

 

 

 

 

You blame the manager?!? He's the one who decides whom we are signing. I thought you'd give SA a bit more time actually, i think he deserves more personally.

He's had her replaced by a proper hot beverage technician, and not a moment too soon. We've been in the bloody dark ages on the tea front.

Probably only Green Tea now because of the higher anti-oxidant level. Or maybe the new Tea lady is in fact Green.

Sanchez likes direct, long ball and that's the kind of football our central defenders seem particularly bad at dealing with.

I'm startin to worry that we got nothing more than our money's worth for Cacapa and Roz.

 

you expect wonders from a combined £2m?

No, and that was my point.

 

Where would we have to finish at the end of this season for you to look back on it and be able to think that we've done quite well?

 

I want to see signs that Allardyce knows the game and is on the right lines, and the chairman and owner are understanding what it takes to match those top teams that win the trophies. At the moment, I see neither.

 

 

 

 

What would be more of a sign of an improvement, a higher league finish or almost £20 million spent on a Spanish winger and a defender from Rangers?

 

how about answering me ?

 

You're moving the goalposts. 20m spent on 2 such players who justified their fees - and that Rangers right back looks a canny player - would almost certainly justify a higher finish. [but that particular judgement is up to the manager].

 

What would you say if we lost out on, for instance, Dean Ashton or David Bentley to someone like Man City or Everton because they were prepared to pay more than us ? Are such players not "trophy players" anymore, and as such you would prefer the club to buy lesser players to keep the books perfectly balanced ?

 

 

 

 

Under SBR we signed players like Gallacher, Andy O'Brien, Bassedas, Gavilan, Quinn, Elliot, etc. Then, because of his good management, we improved a bit and then he bought better players like Robert and Bellamy who made a huge difference.

I think we have to improve a bit in terms of league finishes so that we have a bit more money and a better profile to attract the better players. Under SBR we didn't just go out and spend big and finish 4th.

Incidentally, £6m -Smith, £6m Barton and £6m Enrique (i think?) is hardly bargain basement stuff!

Sanchez likes direct, long ball and that's the kind of football our central defenders seem particularly bad at dealing with.

I'm startin to worry that we got nothing more than our money's worth for Cacapa and Roz.

Enrique must be showing precious little in training as well.

Maybe he's a Grannyophile too...

On radio 1 news they are reporting 'player uprising' at the Toon.

 

If 3 senior players going to see Sam is an uprising I hate to think how they would report the rise of Hitler.

 

I would expect senior players to go and see the manager if things aren't going well, it goes with the territory of being 'senior'

wrong to compare allardyce to hitler.....keegan is a closer analogy, started amazingly well but it blew up right at the end.

Well, i laughed!

Lotusland says.......neeeeel pwoi

I privately thought that we bought Cacapa because Edmilson wasn't going to pass a medical in the Summer. Would be surprised if we ended up with both.

Didn't Steve McClaren make his name as a coach with Derby?

About his level i reckon...

Sorry Jim, I think whining about losing African players so they can go off and represent their countries is ridiculous. If the African Football Federation choose to hold their Championships in Jan/Feb then they have every right to do so. Saying it should be held at the same time as the European Championships just to fit in with us is absurd. Do you realise how hot parts of Africa get during June and July? Still, never mind eh? As long as we're ok, eh?

 

Are you saying that European national teams are more important than African ones? That European countries deserve adequate preparation time prior to Continental Championships but African national teams don't?

 

Can I just point out a glaring mistake with this comment?

In the Southern Hemisphere June and July are winter months.

If it's hot in parts of Africa during these months, then it is even hotter in January!

Ghana is in the northern hemisphere.

Menez

Kompany

Cavalho

Beye..Roz..Taylor..Enrique

..............Geremi..............

.......Barton......Emre........

Martins......................Zog

...............Viduka.............

We'll probably need 3 against 2 in the middle as they're so superior there. Martins has pace and energy and can use his right peg or cut in on his left. Both him and Zog can dribble and Viduka might hold it up long enough for Emre and Barton (if not banned) to join the attack.

Don't fancy Geremi much as a DM but we need some possession.

I take it Faye and Cacapa have injuries (?) so Taylor in with Roz.

Not sure i'd play Viduka and Owen at the same time now i think about it. Both like to stay central, neither works the channels particularly  effectively, both prefer being in the box and would rather someone else did the donkey work.

Owen + Smith might work.

Viduka + Martins might work.

Don't think i fancy any other combination atm.

One thing i expected is that the team would go out on the pitch with a bit of fire in their bellies, especially in away games. I thought that SA got Bolton to dominate other teams physically because he didn't have the resources to but a team of skillful players.

Looking at us so far though, apart from away to Bolton we haven't out muscled anybody and we haven't remotely utilised the talent in the squad either.

I think his plans have been hurt by injuries to Emre, Barton, Owen and Viduka and also a lack of form from Milner and Geremi, that's a big hole to fill. However, whatever team we put out, we neither 'get stuck in' nor do we play some decent football.

One thing i expected from Sam is that we wouldn't get turned over by tryers with limited talent but that's exactly what's happened. Watching West Ham with 10 players out injured run rampant against Derby seriously pissed me off.

We've got some decent attacking players but they're not really threatening the opposition. I think of it like boxing, you can cover up and bob and weave all you like but if you can't show your opponent you can punch then the f**ker just won't respect you  and will keep on coming forward.

We don't punch our weight and i expected at least that tbh.

Didn't get the impression he cut it in a harder league tbh, gets a lot of time and space there. His freekicks will work anywhere in the world though!

Should have scored 9 though tbf....

Regardless of how little he has played recently it's one goal in his last 47 games.

 

oh dear. I remember you saying that this Kezman bloke would be an absolute sensation because he scored more goals than Craig Bellamy.

 

You really do think its all about championship manager type statistics don't you ?

 

I expect you would rather have Luque because he scored 3 or 4 

 

I wanted Kezman back in 2005, it had feck all to do with Bellamy though.

 

What's that got to with Smith's goalscoring record though?

 

I don't play Football Manager either.

 

Do you not find it slightly concerning that Smith simply doesn't provide a goal threat? At least with Bellamy he made chances for himself and then usually screwed it up in front of goal.

 

His goalscoring record wouldn't be that problematic if he was some sort of creative genius, but he isn't.

 

shows what crap criteria you use when making judgements, if you use a statistic and can't look at the footballer.

 

As Smith has played up front for Manu, Leeds in the CL, and England, and you are "concerned" this is laughable. And your daft comments about Bellamy even more so. 5 years since we played in the Champions League and we still haven't finished as high in the league or replaced him adequately. "Screwed it up in front of goal" .........  screwed what up in front of goal ? what a load of bollocks, you like your myths don't you.

 

What do you call a creative genius BTW, not someone who partnered Alan Shearer perfectly and prolonged his career by at least 2 years, obviously not. hoho.

 

 

 

I was referring to Smith when I said he wasn't a creative genius. Bellamy offered far more, but as for his finishing, can you not remember how many times Bellamy missed simple chances?

 

Just because Smith has played for some of the biggest teams doesn't mean anything when he hasn't been doing to business on the pitch for the past 3 years!

 

no, I don't remember Craig Bellamy missing loads of simple chances. I've seen many people say this, but its complete bollocks. He actually scored about half his goals from close in and in one-on-one situations. Two goals against the mackems, a fair few in europe including Feyenoord and Valarenga, home to Everton, away to Palace, away to Leeds, home to West Brom.....and I've not even thought about it yet.

 

BTW, most players miss simple chances, always have and always will.

 

And as I said before, if you really are going to harp on about Smith for the last 3 years, you should start by looking at how many games he missed with a broken leg, and how many games he played in midfield for us as well as manure.

 

Nobody is saying he is prolific, including me, he needs a prolific player next to him, he's a support striker, like Craig Bellamy, but you don't see this because you don't understand partnerships in football.

 

 

Do you think very probable that an Owen-Smith partnership will very successful then?