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Reality is our first team is now worse than it was in December. Of the £10M Kinnear allegedly was handed for transfers, the club have spunked a whopping f*** all, not counting profit from the sales of our best player and a whinging French c***. harper or given? given is better, although its a lot closer than some people think. nolan or butt, geremi, smith or the ever reliable barton? thats easy. lovenkrands or n'zogbia? a player who wouldnt have ever kicked a ball for us again or anybody? easy. taylor is very versatile and a decent player who'll add depth. if kinnear was handed £10 million then blame him if you're not happy. I've seen you made this point a few times already, but up until this week N'Zogbia was willing to play for us and arguably one of our few players capable of creating anything resembling a goalscoring opportunity, which is something you completely fail to consider.. Not to mention one of the few players who could run 10 yards without needing an inhaler. Not to mention that he was a whinging little s*** who has been trying to get away from the club for the past three years, Or that despite running around the pitch aimlessly with his wonderful "pace," he was a complete headless chicken who's produced about as much as Damien f***ing Duff over the past three years. That's bollocks though. He's produced vastly more despite having no more than a dozen games in the same position. Same numbers of goals and assists. Roughly the same number of appearances (around 60 over the past 3 years) because Duff has been injured so often. Zog is case in point #1 of the "OMG he's got pace he's got to be awesome" syndrome. What other positive qualities are there to his game other than being able to take on his man once in a blue moon? Duff also creates smooth, creative moves maybe once every couple of games. But when he does it it's a one-off. Zog just looks better because he's moving really fast when he's doing it. Neither contributes enough. How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that they have the same number of assists? I'd count the number of games N'Zogbia has played on the left wing if I could be bothered. Bet it's no more than 15. Because they both have an assist and a goal apiece this season. They're both players who rarely produce anything of substance. As for Zog, he's played around 15 games on the left wing this season alone. Charlie got seven assists last season. Duff has one in the past two years. Your last sentence is ludicrous. I count seven (3 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat, including our best run of the season). So I went and actually did the research. Dear God I don't believe I bothered to dig all of this up. Duff has 67 apps, 5 goals, and 6 assists in the past three seasons. Zog has 68 apps, 5 goals, and 10 assists. So yeah he does assist more. Still pretty piss poor records for both though. As for Zog's games started on left wing this year Coventry City Away Win Arsenal Away Loss Spurs Home (CC) Loss Blackburn Home Loss Everton Away Draw Wigan Home Draw Chelsea Away Draw Boro Away Draw Stoke Home Draw Portsmouth Away Win Spurs Home Win Wigan Away Loss Liverpool Home Loss The two Hull fiascos Blackburn Away Loss That's sixteen starts on the left wing. Ludicrous? Most of those 68 games of Charlie's have been at left back so it's a ludicrous comparison in terms of goals and assists, yet he still manages to come out on top. They're also largely in fits and starts rather than a consistent run in the team which makes a massive difference in terms of form and confidence. I've underestimated the amount of games he's played there, you're right, but some of them in there are wrong, the two Hull games and the two Wigan games mainly. He was having a superb run before Wigan (a), was shuffled to LB for the despicable Duff and that's where this current fiasco with him started and ended, at the JJB. "Most" of his games? Wake up man! The whole idea of using Zog as a left back only even started under Big Sam last season. He's played the majority of his games on the wing. Incidentally, Charlie's scored 3 of his 5 goals from the left back position. Would you rather make a comparison based solely on both players' starts while playing in their preferred positions? I can guarantee you it wont' be any more favorable. Face it, the only reason you love the despicable French waster so much is because Damien Duff occasionally kept him out of the team

Reality is our first team is now worse than it was in December. Of the £10M Kinnear allegedly was handed for transfers, the club have spunked a whopping f*** all, not counting profit from the sales of our best player and a whinging French c***. harper or given? given is better, although its a lot closer than some people think. nolan or butt, geremi, smith or the ever reliable barton? thats easy. lovenkrands or n'zogbia? a player who wouldnt have ever kicked a ball for us again or anybody? easy. taylor is very versatile and a decent player who'll add depth. if kinnear was handed £10 million then blame him if you're not happy. I've seen you made this point a few times already, but up until this week N'Zogbia was willing to play for us and arguably one of our few players capable of creating anything resembling a goalscoring opportunity, which is something you completely fail to consider.. Not to mention one of the few players who could run 10 yards without needing an inhaler. Not to mention that he was a whinging little s*** who has been trying to get away from the club for the past three years, Or that despite running around the pitch aimlessly with his wonderful "pace," he was a complete headless chicken who's produced about as much as Damien f***ing Duff over the past three years. That's bollocks though. He's produced vastly more despite having no more than a dozen games in the same position. Same numbers of goals and assists. Roughly the same number of appearances (around 60 over the past 3 years) because Duff has been injured so often. Zog is case in point #1 of the "OMG he's got pace he's got to be awesome" syndrome. What other positive qualities are there to his game other than being able to take on his man once in a blue moon? Duff also creates smooth, creative moves maybe once every couple of games. But when he does it it's a one-off. Zog just looks better because he's moving really fast when he's doing it. Neither contributes enough. How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that they have the same number of assists? I'd count the number of games N'Zogbia has played on the left wing if I could be bothered. Bet it's no more than 15. Because they both have an assist and a goal apiece this season. They're both players who rarely produce anything of substance. As for Zog, he's played around 15 games on the left wing this season alone. Charlie got seven assists last season. Duff has one in the past two years. Your last sentence is ludicrous. I count seven (3 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat, including our best run of the season). So I went and actually did the research. Dear God I don't believe I bothered to dig all of this up. Duff has 67 apps, 5 goals, and 6 assists in the past three seasons. Zog has 68 apps, 5 goals, and 10 assists. So yeah he does assist more. Still pretty piss poor records for both though. As for Zog's games started on left wing this year Coventry City Away Win Arsenal Away Loss Spurs Home (CC) Loss Blackburn Home Loss Everton Away Draw Wigan Home Draw Chelsea Away Draw Boro Away Draw Stoke Home Draw Portsmouth Away Win Spurs Home Win Wigan Away Loss Liverpool Home Loss The two Hull fiascos Blackburn Away Loss That's sixteen starts on the left wing. Ludicrous? Do tell where your "3-3-1" stat comes from considering that he was an unsued sub for both West Brom and Villa at Home, and a left back for Bolton.

Reality is our first team is now worse than it was in December. Of the £10M Kinnear allegedly was handed for transfers, the club have spunked a whopping f*** all, not counting profit from the sales of our best player and a whinging French c***. harper or given? given is better, although its a lot closer than some people think. nolan or butt, geremi, smith or the ever reliable barton? thats easy. lovenkrands or n'zogbia? a player who wouldnt have ever kicked a ball for us again or anybody? easy. taylor is very versatile and a decent player who'll add depth. if kinnear was handed £10 million then blame him if you're not happy. I've seen you made this point a few times already, but up until this week N'Zogbia was willing to play for us and arguably one of our few players capable of creating anything resembling a goalscoring opportunity, which is something you completely fail to consider.. Not to mention one of the few players who could run 10 yards without needing an inhaler. Not to mention that he was a whinging little s*** who has been trying to get away from the club for the past three years, Or that despite running around the pitch aimlessly with his wonderful "pace," he was a complete headless chicken who's produced about as much as Damien f***ing Duff over the past three years. That's bollocks though. He's produced vastly more despite having no more than a dozen games in the same position. Same numbers of goals and assists. Roughly the same number of appearances (around 60 over the past 3 years) because Duff has been injured so often. Zog is case in point #1 of the "OMG he's got pace he's got to be awesome" syndrome. What other positive qualities are there to his game other than being able to take on his man once in a blue moon? Duff also creates smooth, creative moves maybe once every couple of games. But when he does it it's a one-off. Zog just looks better because he's moving really fast when he's doing it. Neither contributes enough. How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that they have the same number of assists? I'd count the number of games N'Zogbia has played on the left wing if I could be bothered. Bet it's no more than 15. Because they both have an assist and a goal apiece this season. They're both players who rarely produce anything of substance. As for Zog, he's played around 15 games on the left wing this season alone.

You do realize that we're comparing it to where we were a couple of weeks ago, and not to Sir Bobby's Champions League qualifying team?

Reality is our first team is now worse than it was in December. Of the £10M Kinnear allegedly was handed for transfers, the club have spunked a whopping f*** all, not counting profit from the sales of our best player and a whinging French c***. harper or given? given is better, although its a lot closer than some people think. nolan or butt, geremi, smith or the ever reliable barton? thats easy. lovenkrands or n'zogbia? a player who wouldnt have ever kicked a ball for us again or anybody? easy. taylor is very versatile and a decent player who'll add depth. if kinnear was handed £10 million then blame him if you're not happy. I've seen you made this point a few times already, but up until this week N'Zogbia was willing to play for us and arguably one of our few players capable of creating anything resembling a goalscoring opportunity, which is something you completely fail to consider.. Not to mention one of the few players who could run 10 yards without needing an inhaler. Not to mention that he was a whinging little s*** who has been trying to get away from the club for the past three years, Or that despite running around the pitch aimlessly with his wonderful "pace," he was a complete headless chicken who's produced about as much as Damien f***ing Duff over the past three years. That's bollocks though. He's produced vastly more despite having no more than a dozen games in the same position. Same numbers of goals and assists. Roughly the same number of appearances (around 60 over the past 3 years) because Duff has been injured so often. Zog is case in point #1 of the "OMG he's got pace he's got to be awesome" syndrome. What other positive qualities are there to his game other than being able to take on his man once in a blue moon? Duff also creates smooth, creative moves maybe once every couple of games. But when he does it it's a one-off. Zog just looks better because he's moving really fast when he's doing it. Neither contributes enough.

strengthened. not by enough.

Reality is our first team is now worse than it was in December. Of the £10M Kinnear allegedly was handed for transfers, the club have spunked a whopping f*** all, not counting profit from the sales of our best player and a whinging French c***. harper or given? given is better, although its a lot closer than some people think. nolan or butt, geremi, smith or the ever reliable barton? thats easy. lovenkrands or n'zogbia? a player who wouldnt have ever kicked a ball for us again or anybody? easy. taylor is very versatile and a decent player who'll add depth. if kinnear was handed £10 million then blame him if you're not happy. I've seen you made this point a few times already, but up until this week N'Zogbia was willing to play for us and arguably one of our few players capable of creating anything resembling a goalscoring opportunity, which is something you completely fail to consider.. Not to mention one of the few players who could run 10 yards without needing an inhaler. Not to mention that he was a whinging little s*** who has been trying to get away from the club for the past three years, Or that despite running around the pitch aimlessly with his wonderful "pace," he was a complete headless chicken who's produced about as much as Damien f***ing Duff over the past three years.

At a cost of £2.6m? Where did that utterly and completely random number come from. Isn't that the rumoured amount we still owe on him if he plays two more games? It's a completely insubstantial s*** rumor though. What kind of idiotic club would broker a transfer deal where half the fee depended on the player in question making 10 appearances? Does the clause ever expire? Because if not we must be planning on never playing him ever.

At a cost of £2.6m? Where did that utterly and completely random number come from.

You know what, sacking Kinnear would be like a new signing. We might actually get to see Xisco when all the other senior strikers are injured.

We can't change the squad anymore. We can change the manager. The squad may be weak but just having a competent manager that doesn't alienate the players and isn't a raving lunatic would improve things a thousandfold. We need to take that step to save the club.

Bullshit rumors should be punishable by death.

OK, I realise people are pissed off, but why has the finances thread been forgotten? The club is losing £20m a season. How exactly is Ashely pocketing cash? Fair point. He's not attempting to asset strip our club. He just happens to be a woefully incompetent piece of shit.

That's not even possible he only has 56 Wigan appearances. Tranmere fan? Or, more likely, just taking the piss.

Won't it basically just end up being a real-life version of the transfer thread after 5pm? Wouldn't be looking forward to that.

Sure your not talking from personal experience, a strange justification to make indeed. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx7X4cgh3qI Seen it, quality. mackems.gif That's the best one of those I've ever seen! Giggs and Rooney in 40 years

News. Sort of. Fabio Zambalera moves on loan to Sampdoria with a view to a permanent move at end of season.

i'd also say they have a pretty coherent game plan, a settled/balanced side and a manager who knows what they are doing. we all know stoke city are s*** but they have certain strengths that they play to and they make a half decent fist of it. we have more quality (when players are fit) but there's no overall vision, our squad is an unbalanced mess, a hodge-podge of signings from different managers or even scouts that doesn't really amount to a team. Stoke have tactics. Yes, they're really horrible to look at, but they have a game plan. As do West Brom and Hull. Kinnear is blatantly one of those managers who just whips up a basic 4-4-2 and says "alright lads go out there and do your best!" (As are, I suspect, Southgate and Adams) We're like the noob FM player who just chooses one of the default options and never changes it.

I'll make sure to miss it then, thanks for the heads-up. Could not care less what the miserable t*** has to say. I look forward to forgetting that he even existed.

I'm sorry I agree with everything you say but that just made me keel over and laugh for some reason.

I'm not annoyed we didn't get Johnson in particular but the fact that we didn't get anyone to push Butt out of the squad period. Blatantly going to cost us our premiership status.

Somebody finally came in and told him the meaning of the words "PR" apparently.

Just watched a highlight compilation of him playing against us. Jesus, he really does turn into Pele

What's the deal with Guthrie? There hasn't been anything on his injury other than from SSN and physioroom still has him down as coming back at the end of the month.

Be very nice to actually have a threat from freekicks around the edge of the penalty area. It's been a long time. Exactly how good is he supposed to be at those direct freekicks though. Only has four goals against us and two goals against Birmingham to show for it after 56 appearances at Wigan.