Tsunami

The Rotherham game is class. I still have it on VCR somewhere. I was supposed to go but had a match & my brother went. Luckily, it was on MotD.

Haven't read any of the post; for my money MC played well on the day & deserved to win. We had a fantastic start (great goal) but BS will be very disappointed with their first 2 goals. We took up a high line and our midfield failed to close the ball down for the first goal. The time given to pick the pass was unbelievable. The second goal was down to a poor header from Zog & then a missed header from Roz. Zog again showed that he isn't a LB. Enrique has got to be given a start. In a game where you score first you have to be disappointed to lose.

The date of the name change from the "First Division" to the "Premier League" is an arbitrary date from which to start your statistical comparisons. It is a 'much beloved' date for some people. Often these are people who think that football was invented in 1992, and was invented by Sky! I am not saying that you are one of those, but there are plenty of them around, and this is just pandering to their seeming beliefs. The game has a lot more money in it now and the formation of the Premier League helped in this, but it would probably have happened anyway (unfortunately, in many ways). There was no tangible difference between the last season of The First Division and the first season of the Premier League - so why do you start your analysis at that arbitrary date? Normally people would look back and analyse issues over (say) the "last ten years" or the "last twenty years", or the last 30, 40, or 50, or whatever. For the simple reason that the PL fundamentally changed the face of football & Sky's money immediately widened the gap between those that have and those that didn't.

In the 15 years since the PL started only 4 teams have won it, another 1 club in addition to those 4 has won the FA Cup & another 4 to that PL winning 4 have won the League Cup. Out of 45 trophies only 9 clubs have shared the success and outside of the "Big 4"only Villa has won more than 1 trophy (the League Cup twice). Let's be honest the League Cup has not been important to the "Big 4". None outside the Big 4 has won in europe during that time. We will need a lot of luck to win anything or a bigger sea change than has already taken place. It will not be easy as we have shown all too often. I was alive when we won the Fairs Cup but too young to remember it. In over 40 years on this planet I have never been able to celebrate winning anything, although winning the "1st" Division with KK was a great time. I could go on about the clubs that have won trophies in my living memory but it will just upset me (Oxford, ffs).

That needs a little perspective

I'll say it again; this thread has nothing to do with previous game mentality. If I was affected like that I could have posted after the Villa game. Do people agree with my assessment of the WH game? If so, Sam should be looking to change his shape & tactics. If not then you were watching a different game to me.

did that come over right,i mean i'd rather we finished 4th this season than finished 5th with a carling cup win,even FA cup win for that matter. No, I took it as cake & eat it. As a one season gimmee I'd rather win the Carling Cup than qualify for the Champs League; we'd still be in the Uefa Cup & have more chance of doing well in that.

That needs a little perspective. I'd rather win the Carling Cup & finish out of the relegation zone than finish 2nd in the league. I'd rather finish 2nd in the league on a regular basis than win the Carling Cup & finish out the relegation zone. For where we are now I'd love to win the Carling Cup. As to the question the simple answer must be silverware & top 6 finishes. i'd rather finish 2nd than win the carling cup and finish 5th. f*** it,i'd rather finish 4th than finish 5th and win the carling cup.

Can't run but he's a handful & technically very good. I'd have him here & England could do far worse.

That needs a little perspective. I'd rather win the Carling Cup & finish out of the relegation zone than finish 2nd in the league. I'd rather finish 2nd in the league on a regular basis than win the Carling Cup & finish out the relegation zone. For where we are now I'd love to win the Carling Cup. As to the question the simple answer must be silverware & top 6 finishes.

I think that is how a lot of fans feel; I feel that it is a problem & is one that could be addressed quite quickly; so why wait? If Sam's 1st half set up/ tactics against WH played his set up/ tactics after 60 mins of the same game I'd take the 2nd half team to beat the 1st half team 8 or 9 times out 10. Yet Sam reverted to type next game - long ball, no width on the right, Smith midfield. What happened; Arsenal's kids took us apart. I am happy & positive. This is intended as constructive post. Not a we are crap, get rid jibe.

We aren't building sky scraper; we are using tactics that suggest we are playing one up front. As I say, the back room is looking great, the defence is vastly strengthened. This doesn't stop tactics changing at the same time as your post would suggest.

My post was made after a reflection of what I have seen so far in PL games; not simply because we had been soundly beaten by Arsenal reserves in the Carling Cup. We played well against Bolton although they didn't turn up. We struggled badly against Villa & could well have lost - we were very easy to contain that game We twice led against 'boro, drew & performed ok We struggled against a 10 man Wigan team & scored a late winner We were awful against Derby We were outplayed by WH in the 1st half but took control once the shape was changed In each of these games our main tactic has been route one (even against Derby). We don't have the players or team shape (currently) to make a success of route one play. We either don't win possession in the first place & our imbalanced shape gets exploited or, on the few occasions where we do win first or second ball we don't have many options & none wide right. We have not scored a goal via route one this season (Owen missed a good chance when a Wigan defender fell over). Of our 9 league goals 5 have come from crosses from the left, 1 form the right (when Martins not Smith was there), we have also had an individual goal from Zog cutting in from the left, a wicked deflected shot for Martins (some may call that a route one goal - I don't) the other was direct from a free kick from the right. I can't say what goals we have conceded via a counter attack following giving up possession from an attempted long ball. To my mind we should be looking at this.

What is it with some people? As a supporter we are allowed to question things within our club. I am happy with our start; I am not overly impressed with what appears to me to be glaring imbalances & accommodation of certain players.

Once we put Enrique on, moved Zog up, Milner switched flanks & put Smith up top we had shape and balance and options - I agree we took control from that point. BS isn't above constructive observation. We are fifth, we haven't played any of the top teams & we have struggled at times during every home game & lost at Derby. Our points total doesn't reflect some of the performances; surely you can see that? Tactics may well change, I hope they do but BS should be seeing problems before any of us.

Pub Team tactics - not Pub Team.

BS is putting in place a backroom set up which will be the envy of most. He employs the latest technology and has data on everything that his players do on the pitch. Given this fantastic set up & database, together with the quality of players he has at his disposal why are we using long ball tactics and playing A Smith in midfield? I am mystified; does prozone not only show where the players are on the pitch but can it also show what they are doing in relation to the ball & at what altitude the ball is at as they do it? Players are spending most of their time chasing & failing to win long balls & then chasing backwards as we get attacked down the vacant wide (our right mostly) areas. Surely the Back Room/ Technology set up should equal more than what BS is producing at the moment. And, I am fan of BS.

Barton should improve the play of either Geremi or Butt. I suspect BS will pick Geremi.

I think that this question needs opening up again. In the very near future I would suggest that Geremi & Butt will be competing for 1 place in midfield. Milner should play on the right, Barton will have a place in the middle & Zog should be on the left (with Enrique LB). Our shape was so much better with this set up. Smith should not be even considered to play midfield & Emre has a hell of a job on to get into the team once fit (as has Duff). Geremi or Butt? Not much between them though I'd pick Butt if asked now.

Mort has a right go at the way the existing debt was structured & suggests that the club could have crumbled like a stack of cards. May be a bit of over egging but there can be no doubt that FF would have faced a cash crisis had MA not taken over.

I'll change my avatar back & you can kiss the screen. Please, lock the thread. PS. If I have 10 pints of Mad Dog in the Barking Dog & see Steve Harper & mistake him for Shay Given it still doesn't mean I think he's a hansome bloke (Shay not Steve) & will tell him I think he's one of the top 5 best looking players at the club. I will ask him what he's doing there 2 hours before a home match & that he'd better not frequent the place at any other time. Please, lock the thread.

Please, lock this thread. It is very disturbing.

Keegan's was better, Sir Bob had imo had a harder job to take on. KK had nowt to lose & we had a head start on most other clubs in terms of spending. SB took over when we were in a right mess, when expectations were very high, where we were on the decline & where we were no longer the entertainers that KK had made us. Both did fantastic jobs & I'd have no problems with those who chose SB; KK did after all chuck his dummy out in the end.

Smith should be on the bench as a replacement for Viduka who will struggle to play 60-70 minutes & will miss a number of games though injury. Ameobi blew it against Derby & will be lucky not to be sold in January should a bid come in.

Smith showed that he is a front man & that he should not be allowed in a midfield where we also have Butt & Geremi. From now on Enrique should start, Zog on the left, Milner on the right with Geremi (who isn't playing that well) & Butt in the middle. Smith should come on, up front, to replace The Duke mid way through the second half. Once Barton is fit Butt & Geremi will be fighting for one place. Our midfied got stuffed first half, there was no movement or width & as a result we sat off, didn't win any second balls & allowed WH space, especially down their left & we also got murdered down the middle by Cole & Ashton (who looks a real handful) as we couldn't compete aginst their strength. We improved second half & took control once Zog moved up, Milner changed flanks & Smith moved up top. Our shape was so much better & gave Butt & Geremi options they didn't have before. IMO Martins was much more effective than Owen who had a quiet game & clearly wasn't fit.