LucaAltieri

Me too.

Missed it due to time zones. Was it a comprehensive bum fucking?

OK, I'll bite. One of our most expensive players was Shearer and he worked out perfectly for us, it was never what we paid, it was who we bought. We're 8th in the league and I refuse to accept that is our level while Everton are in the top 6, something which he seems to think is beyond us, if they can do it then we should be able to. Our fans being more unhappy when we lose is the same as the fans of every other competitive team sport so why even mention it? As for mega rich clubs, look at Everton. You don't even have to look at Everton, look at who won both domestic cups last season. So you're quibbling over not being 2 places higher in the league. Want us to return to the transfer policies that brought us Owen, Martins, and relegation. Not concentrating enough on the cups. And denying the cringe-worthy, spiteful, echo chamber this place becomes when we lose a few on the bounce? Yeah, he's the one in the wrong here. What a load of bollocks, you're just invented something I haven't said and Everton are 5th which is 3 places higher and they're in a position to qualify for Europe which is hardly quibbling. Oh, so where we finished not even two years ago. Have you never heard of the saying which involves chickens, hatching and counting..? I suggest you wait until the end of THIS season before you start crowing about either where we are now or something that we fluked 2 years ago and don't stand a cat in hell's chance of repeating. We're a hell of a lot closer to 5th than we are to 17th. We don't have a cat in hell's chance of finishing up in either of those positions. Perhaps not. But I object to the fact the 5th place was the fluke while 17th is an accurate reflection of how the club is doing. Why isn't it the other way around? As I've pointed out, we're closer to 5th right now than we are to 17th. More to the point, if 5th isn't where we deserve to be, why is Michael Owen the cunt for echoing the same sentiment saying 8th is about right for us at the moment? I don't want to be the one defending Pardew and tossers like Owen, but some of the biases on here are ridiculous. Can't see the wood for the trees.

OK, I'll bite. One of our most expensive players was Shearer and he worked out perfectly for us, it was never what we paid, it was who we bought. We're 8th in the league and I refuse to accept that is our level while Everton are in the top 6, something which he seems to think is beyond us, if they can do it then we should be able to. Our fans being more unhappy when we lose is the same as the fans of every other competitive team sport so why even mention it? As for mega rich clubs, look at Everton. You don't even have to look at Everton, look at who won both domestic cups last season. So you're quibbling over not being 2 places higher in the league. Want us to return to the transfer policies that brought us Owen, Martins, and relegation. Not concentrating enough on the cups. And denying the cringe-worthy, spiteful, echo chamber this place becomes when we lose a few on the bounce? Yeah, he's the one in the wrong here. What a load of bollocks, you're just invented something I haven't said and Everton are 5th which is 3 places higher and they're in a position to qualify for Europe which is hardly quibbling. Oh, so where we finished not even two years ago. Have you never heard of the saying which involves chickens, hatching and counting..? I suggest you wait until the end of THIS season before you start crowing about either where we are now or something that we fluked 2 years ago and don't stand a cat in hell's chance of repeating. We're a hell of a lot closer to 5th than we are to 17th.

Factually accurate wumming.

is right.

OK, I'll bite. One of our most expensive players was Shearer and he worked out perfectly for us, it was never what we paid, it was who we bought. We're 8th in the league and I refuse to accept that is our level while Everton are in the top 6, something which he seems to think is beyond us, if they can do it then we should be able to. Our fans being more unhappy when we lose is the same as the fans of every other competitive team sport so why even mention it? As for mega rich clubs, look at Everton. You don't even have to look at Everton, look at who won both domestic cups last season. So you're quibbling over not being 2 places higher in the league. Want us to return to the transfer policies that brought us Owen, Martins, and relegation. Not concentrating enough on the cups. And denying the cringe-worthy, spiteful, echo chamber this place becomes when we lose a few on the bounce? Yeah, he's the one in the wrong here. What a load of bollocks, you're just invented something I haven't said and Everton are 5th which is 3 places higher and they're in a position to qualify for Europe which is hardly quibbling. Oh, so where we finished not even two years ago.

OK, I'll bite. One of our most expensive players was Shearer and he worked out perfectly for us, it was never what we paid, it was who we bought. We're 8th in the league and I refuse to accept that is our level while Everton are in the top 6, something which he seems to think is beyond us, if they can do it then we should be able to. Our fans being more unhappy when we lose is the same as the fans of every other competitive team sport so why even mention it? As for mega rich clubs, look at Everton. You don't even have to look at Everton, look at who won both domestic cups last season. So you're quibbling over not being 2 places higher in the league. Want us to return to the transfer policies that brought us Owen, Martins, and relegation. Not concentrating enough on the cups. And denying the cringe-worthy, spiteful, echo chamber this place becomes when we lose a few on the bounce? Yeah, he's the one in the wrong here.

You are taking the piss. We've got a good scouting system, big money signings hadn't worked out for us, we're 8th in the league which isn't that bad, our fans are more unhappy when we're losing, his own stint here didn't work out, we can't compete with the mega-rich clubs, and he had no problems with Kinnear but felt he was from a bygone era. Controversial.

He's on the money, the reasonable bastard. Die in a fire you even handed prick.

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids. We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them. I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids. You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc. Too an extent. It's a high pressure job where 3 losses in a row and people are calling for you to be sacked. It's understandable to a point. That's part of the reason I like MLS. The salary caps and limited "roster" space mean that kids are necessary for building a squad. My Seattle Sounders had DeAndre Yedlin break through last year and are very likely to see Dylan Remick and Eriq Zavaleta this year. There's just no other option for most teams. You get the same thing happen when clubs like Southampton are stuck for cash, or like us: keeping the squad thin. I think we're more likely than other clubs to start producing good young players for that very reason. It just doesn't happen overnight. There are also other factors: as a football coach myself I know there's only so much you can actually do to help players. You can give them all the instruction in the world but if they're not prepared to push themselves then they're not going to get any better. You can't kick the ball for them. As anyone who has ever had a job knows; 90% of the people employed there are just happy turning up and doing the same thing they've always done. Comfortably phoning it in. It's no different in football. Andy Carroll is a great example. When his first team opportunity came up he really knuckled down and you could see him getting better and better. Then he signs his big money contract, thinks he's made it, and he stagnates. There are a lot of variables at play. But the one thing I can say with complete confidence is: remarks like "We're never going to have any good youth players under Pardew" and shit like that are nonsense for many reasons: 1) We do give players opportunities to prove themselves. We actively want them to step up because we're at the bare bones most of the time. 2) He's not even the fucking youth coach. 3) Motivation is the single biggest factor in developing a player, and he's shown himself to be reasonably good at managing players (Cabaye, Colo, etc). 4) He has come out publicly and urged these guys to step it up. Whether they do or not is on their own backs. He can't kick the ball for them either. Another good example re: the MLS is Omar Gonzales at LA Galaxy. If they'd had no salary cap, there's no chance that one of (IMO) the US' best CBs at the moment would have had anywhere near the gametime he'd need to develop. Word. And this season we should be seeing a lot more of Charlie Rugg and Jack McBean too. Obviously no promises about them being as good as Gonzales, but they're getting the opportunity to make it happen.

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids. We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them. I do think generally, that English managers don't trust kids. You'll never win a game with 11 James Miners etc etc. Too an extent. It's a high pressure job where 3 losses in a row and people are calling for you to be sacked. It's understandable to a point. That's part of the reason I like MLS. The salary caps and limited "roster" space mean that kids are necessary for building a squad. My Seattle Sounders had DeAndre Yedlin break through last year and are very likely to see Dylan Remick and Eriq Zavaleta this year. There's just no other option for most teams. You get the same thing happen when clubs like Southampton are stuck for cash, or like us: keeping the squad thin. I think we're more likely than other clubs to start producing good young players for that very reason. It just doesn't happen overnight. There are also other factors: as a football coach myself I know there's only so much you can actually do to help players. You can give them all the instruction in the world but if they're not prepared to push themselves then they're not going to get any better. You can't kick the ball for them. As anyone who has ever had a job knows; 90% of the people employed there are just happy turning up and doing the same thing they've always done. Comfortably phoning it in. It's no different in football. Andy Carroll is a great example. When his first team opportunity came up he really knuckled down and you could see him getting better and better. Then he signs his big money contract, thinks he's made it, and he stagnates. There are a lot of variables at play. But the one thing I can say with complete confidence is: remarks like "We're never going to have any good youth players under Pardew" and shit like that are nonsense for many reasons: 1) We do give players opportunities to prove themselves. We actively want them to step up because we're at the bare bones most of the time. 2) He's not even the fucking youth coach. 3) Motivation is the single biggest factor in developing a player, and he's shown himself to be reasonably good at managing players (Cabaye, Colo, etc). 4) He has come out publicly and urged these guys to step it up. Whether they do or not is on their own backs. He can't kick the ball for them either.

Relegation, lack of money, necessity of playing their kids. We have many of those same things going on. Very few teams offer kids the same first team opportunities we do. Whether or not they take them is down to them.

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then? Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country. How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years? That's not really the point I'm making. None of our young players have developed whatsoever under Pardew, including the ones we've bought like Santon, Bigirimana etc. Sammy Ameobi is a better player than he was before Pardew. Ben Arfa improved in several areas under Pardew (albeit not consistently). Santon was shaky as fuck at times but has settled down a bit under Pardew. Debuchy had a hard time when arrived but is now playing better. Cayabe, while he was here, started strong, had a dip in form, and recovered to be our best player. Colo has had dips in form only to become a stronger player while working under Pardew. Bigi was given first team opportunities here. Very few other teams hand over all their cup (and European) games to their second string the way we do. Pardew gets criticised for it, but it helps the young players get experience. If Bigi hasn't kicked on as a result of it, or requested he go out on loan to get more regular first team experience, then the fault is Bigi's. Or perhaps he just wasn't that great to begin with.

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then? Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country. How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years? Do only English international strikers count? Not at all, but it's not fair to compare the achievements of turning out an England striker to producing a Bolivian under 21s left-back or whatever.

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then? Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country. How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years? You're limiting it to one position, how many forwards will the England squad include? How many current England players will come from the clubs they started out at? Much more telling the amount of youth players coming through squads who make it as first team regulars rather than limiting the parameters so much. I limit it simply as a testament to the difficulty of the achievement. Even extending to other positions and other nationalities the premise still holds true. No other clubs are turning out quality players at a much different rate. Even teams like Arsenal who have a really good track record of developing young players don't turn out many first teamers over the average 3 years, let alone internationally capped players. Man United, who are thought to have one of the best youth setups in world, don't turn out first teamers or internationals at a much better rate.

I don't like to make a habit of defending Pardew but FFS. Some of the guff on here is ridiculous at times.

You make that sound like an eternity. He had his breakthrough 3 seasons ago. Have the other academies of Premier League teams been churning out star players since then? Not every player on our books is going to make it. In fact, if 10% of them did we'd have the best youth system in the country. How many other academies have turned out an England international striker in the last 3 or 4 years?

Totally... I mean except for Tim Krul, Andy Carroll, Sammy Ameobi, Peter Ramage, and Fraser Forster. But other than them, what other Championship level players have they produced? Shola, Chopra, Bradley Orr, David Edgar, Coppinger. There's probably a few more. Yup, Kazenga LuaLua too. You can also argue N'Zogbia, but he wasn't in the youth setup long before becoming a first team regular. There are quite a few of them.

Totally... I mean except for Tim Krul, Andy Carroll, Sammy Ameobi, Peter Ramage, and Fraser Forster. But other than them, what other Championship level players have they produced?

It's a tough one. Young players very rarely live up to the potential they show when they are younger. 17-20 years old is a key point in player development where they will either sink or swim. We may well have fucked up our end of the deal by not doing enough to develop these players but there are so many other things that can go wrong, and do go wrong, that it's impossible to lay the blame directly at the feet of the coaching staff. It can come down to attitude (Nile Ranger), players just not progressing beyond a certain level (Alan O'Brien), or never developing enough physically (Richard Offiong). Kadar, who was mentioned above, had a hard time with injuries, didn't he? I'm sure that the coaching staff we have can be improved upon, without question. But a lot of it comes down to the players themselves. The likes of Vuckic have opportunities to prove themselves now. Some use those opportunities well and flourish (Fraser Foster) and others don't.

And if our reserve/youth coaches also happen to be massive racists, that can't have helped.

Not a massive Baggio fan. Didn't really get to see much of him at the time and when I've gone back and seen his old games he was a good dribbler of the ball but a little bit underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, still a very good player, but I can't put him up there with the legends.

Catch that Best Soccer Show episode where they talk about Rio possibly coming over? I think Drogba can still be a influential player at his age, but like they said, Rio coming over would be MLS 1.0 all over again. Totally negative step, overpaying for an oft-injured, over-the-hill player who really wouldn't add much to the league. Went back a listened to it. Pretty sound football-wise. Can't really argue with anything they said. Not too sure about the added character assassination.

He didn't need to say the "he's done a lot of good work bit" really stupid, open himself up to further questions. He could of easily said, "I don't like to see anyone lose their job, I wish Joe all the best for the future" simple non contentious and non ambiguous. Unless of course his intention was for questions to be asked about this so called "good work". These managers are supposed to be schooled in these press conferences, he should know better. He may have also been taking the piss.