Thumbheed

https://twitter.com/MoneyMikeAshley/status/1305469687497662464

The money shot.

If these have been retained by only Ashley am I correct in thinking it doesn’t necessarily mean the deal is back on? He just wants compensation?

He's already said they've provided enough evidence on the point of contention so this will be about the sale, not compensation.

Ashley has seen the colour of their money and also will be thinking about his new contacts, the strength of which will depend on this sale going through.

This will happen.

They represented Man City in their dispute with UEFA apparently.

 

Mike definitely wants to get paid.

Aye, all this talk of split shares is nonsense. Ashley wants to sell to Saudi's and Saudi's only.

It begins.

Saudis setting up their own sports media company is also a another step in the right direction for us imo.

I dont see how it makes any sense for NUFC to release a statement saying the bid had been rejected if indeed Stavely and PIF had not been back in. Surely that would infuriate them? It's also alluding to the fact the the PL have said PIF and KSA are not sufficiently independent which is why the PL rejected it. Again, a f***ing ridiculous political move by NUFC if the second attempt and whatever kind of rejection wasn;t true.

 

None of this makes any sense. Someone's lying and whoever it is is going to look f***ing horrific.

 

Odds on it's us.

I can't help but think this was to draw the PL out into a public statement. We're still waiting for a decision and there's 100% grounds to reject it. It's clear the PL are willing to let this impasse go on indefinitely so the club needed to act.

It's further evidence that they aren't acting apporiately, which is the point of the statement.

Makes sense to me.

"The Athletic understands that Ashley had been keen to use his new contacts to pursue wider business opportunities with the Saudis. He is said to be furious that he may now have lost out twice over."

Reason 12847 why this is not over.

Man that video of Masters, he looks far less smug now doesn’t he.

 

I really thought this was dead as a dodo but I think some of us including me owe Manorpark an apology.

 

Sorry buddy, you were not wrong!

 

Well he was. He suggested on many occasions the ‘talking behind the scenes’ would lead to takeover being accepted......

 

.....PL rejected it

 

I hope in the long run he’s right and it gets overturned on appeal or something

Nah, no he didn't. He's been pretty clear he was waiting for exactly this kind of confirmation. He's taken some uneccassary patter.

I don’t understand the positivity. The talking behind the scenes has ended in failure.

 

Hopefully something comes of the league action but essentially all the talking has to official rejection

 

Yea I’m a bit baffled by this. That’s how I see it too.

 

Because there's clear indication that they don't accept the decision, which gives them thr option of seeking independent adjudication, free of bias and influence which has clearly corrupted this process.

 

How can that not be a positive?

 

Which is possibly what the premier league want as well as it takes any decision making away from themselves which stops bein getting p*ssed off with them.

I thought this, but then if it was the case why didn't they reject it sooner?

I don’t understand the positivity. The talking behind the scenes has ended in failure.

 

Hopefully something comes of the league action but essentially all the talking has to official rejection

 

Yea I’m a bit baffled by this. That’s how I see it too.

Because there's clear indication that they don't accept the decision, which gives them thr option of seeking independent adjudication, free of bias and influence which has clearly corrupted this process.

How can that not be a positive?

Unfortunately I still can’t see this going anywhere. I don’t think Ashley will sue. 

 

 

Seriously?

 

Did you read the club's statement . . .

 

"This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government."

 

"The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them."

 

Yes. I have read it. It will all depend on whether their lawyers think the case is winnable. The problem is that PIF is clearly not autonomous and independent of the Saudi Arabian government. I know it’s complete hypocrisy when compared to Man City etc. but hey this is Newcastle United, what do we expect?

 

But do you not think he'd have taken that advice before making such a incredibly strong statement?  "overwhelming evidence" saying the top guy at the Premier League has "acted inappropriately".  It's pretty strong for someone who's not yet decided his position.

 

By the way we're is your evidence that PIF are clearly not autonomous?

 

The PIF board:

 

Ibrahim Abdulaziz Al-Assaf - Minister of State and member of the Saudi Council of Ministers

Majid Abdullah Al Qasabi - Minister of Commerce

Mohammad Abdul Malek Al Shaikh - Minister of State and member of the Saudi Council of Ministers

Ahmed Aqeel Al-Khateeb - Minister of Tourism

Khalid Abdulaziz Al-Falih - Minister of Investment

Mohammed Abdullah Al-Jadaan - Minister of Finance

 

and of course:

 

Chairman of PIF Mohammad bin Salman - The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia...

 

I can imagine you’d have to be a pretty bloody good lawyer to convince anyone that they are independent of the Saudi state...

 

However maybe it is possible, or maybe they hope they can force the PL into submission through expensive litigation? I’m just not feeling positive about it.

 

Where's the evidence PIF aren't autonomous get real  this. Now we don't know what the assurances that were handed to the league about MBS and co not being involved, maybe they are completely credible and premier league not listening was unreasonable, however, PIF is the saudi state and claiming otherwise is willful blindness.

 

This is the thing, just because 1 side says the evidence is overwhelming and correct doesn't mean it's correct.

Interested to see which court is willing to call the Saudi Kingdom liars.

Any lawsuit will drag on for ages and if it has any outcome in favour of ashley it will probably be long past teh consortium still being interested. Unless the league caves immediately at the threat I am not sure this will really impact anything

 

Any legal action will be for compensation not for the takeover to be approved.

 

That's what I mean. It's just a bit of a shrug from me

What compensation we talking here? Where's the monetary value in taking the PL to court? This is 100% to challenge the decision. They literally tell you as much in the statement. Its the clearest statement we've had in 13 years ffs

 

I'm trying to interpret what George is saying here.

Is he saying that they were quietly getting things done behind the scenes but Ashley has f***ed it all with his statement ?

"Escalation" reads to me as being part of the process.

Unfortunately I still can’t see this going anywhere. I don’t think Ashley will sue. 

 

 

Seriously?

 

Did you read the club's statement . . .

 

"This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government."

 

"The club and its owners do not accept that Premier League chief executive Richard Masters and the Premier League have acted appropriately in relation to this matter and will be considering all relevant options available to them."

 

Yes. I have read it. It will all depend on whether their lawyers think the case is winnable. The problem is that PIF is clearly not autonomous and independent of the Saudi Arabian government. I know it’s complete hypocrisy when compared to Man City etc. but hey this is Newcastle United, what do we expect?

Isn't there already precedent of them being proved legally seperate?

'This conclusion has been reached despite the club providing the Premier League with overwhelming evidence and legal opinions that PIF is independent and autonomous of the Saudi Arabian government.'

 

Interesting it was the club providing the evidence, surely it should have been PIF ?

It's all done via the club.

This is good news. We have clarity and by the sounds of it Ashly and the club do not accept the decision. They've clearly stated they've provided enough information to counter this decision so it looks like they'll fight the decision in court.

Not linking this to PIF still being in discussions behind the scenes but how serious are the Saudis into getting into Football?

 

I can see them hitting problems in France due to PSG's owners, Germany is a no go and how receptive would the Spanish FA be to someone breaking up the Barca/Real duopoly?

 

This really leaves the Premier League as the best route for them so could it be that there will be some form of an offshoot of PIF being put together in the background who will then come back in for us or another club?

 

Edit, Italy obviously are a route that I forgot about when coming up with this hypothesis!

I'd say pretty serious. Soft power over a UK Government who are desperate to suckle at their teet whilst they negotiate trade deals for Brexit will surely be at the forefront of their thinking. Not to mention Sportswashing on a global scale. I dont think that opportunity lends itself in other countries.

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

 

Aye! That is what confused me, because it seemed clear to me you were saying PIF were out but the deal was "100% not dead", that didn't make sense to me, but neither does the assertion that you can't talk in absolutes in regards to this. You're essentially saying I think it's definitely off, but I can't rule out it not being on.

 

I've probably totally got the wrong end of the stick here. All good.

 

That's it. And your point about absolutes is well taken. Apologies for being a bit of a dick. 

I'm just absolutely desperate for this to go through tbh.

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

 

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

 

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

 

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

 

I don't mean to be salty, but I don't know if you misread my initial post or what. I do not think negotiations are happening. I think I pretty expressly indicated that there's no basis for people to infer that the PIF's statement was a mastermind's red herring to throw those meddling kids off track and that double-secret negotiations are really going on. Maybe writing "not 100% dead for all time" was misleading? That wasn't meant to suggest that I think there's anything going on--I've just seen a very, very few deals peter out then get closed after circumstances change, and it's dumb to use absolutes.

Aye! That is what confused me, because it seemed clear to me you were saying PIF were out but the deal was "100% not dead", that didn't make sense to me, but neither does the assertion that you can't talk in absolutes in regards to this. You're essentially saying I think it's definitely off, but I can't rule out it not being on.

I've probably totally got the wrong end of the stick here. All good.

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

 

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

 

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

 

Got it: you're being pedantic. Cool.

 

People can signal to the press that they'd still be "interested". They can tell each other they'd still do a deal if any of x, y, or z happen. I guess you'd call that talks, since you're operating on an I/O basis. But the reality is there's no there there.

Crikey. Salty much?

I'm the pedant whilst you redefine and stretch what the reported "talks" could mean? How about they mean negoiations are still ongoing? That is far less convoluted than what you're offering.

Because if as you say the most likely situation is that PIF are out, then the other 2 parties expressing "interest" means precisely f*** all and certainly don't constitute "talks" in the manner you are inferring. There's a big f*** off £280m gap to fill ffs.

It just doesn't make sense, what's hard to understand about that?

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

 

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. My point is I don't see any reason to believe any real or productive "talks" are happening.

Talks are either on or off. There's no middle ground here that makes sense imo.

So the notion of non productive talks taking place makes no sense. Either they're all in or they're not.

I really don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. The most likely scenario is exactly what it appears to be: PL asked for information PIF/SA didn't want to give, PIF got fed up and pulled out, Ashley upset, Stavely upset, parties still "interested" (except maybe PIF), deal not 100% dead for all eternity, but no legitimate reason to have any particular hope.

If PIF are categorically not interested, which is a fair assumption to make, then the deals dead and there's therefore nothing to discuss. Ashley is notoriously short on patience so what talks could possibly be going on with Ashley and the people who only want 20% of the club? What's the alternative reality to PIF actually still being in discussions which makes the narrative above make sense?

Not unhappy with this but for that price I'd have gambled on Morelos.

Not too many tapped players who are s***. Higher ceiling too.

Fair play. Decent replacement for Enrique tbf.

Getting a familiar sinking feeling that even if we sign these targets, who are all objectively very talented - Fraser, Lewis, Wilson, we don't have a good enough manager or coaching setup to make use of them, like McClaren back with that infamous spending spree

 

Hope I'm wrong

You're not.