Wolfcastle

It might be relative. They're a much better side than the ones we've been playing well against (Everton at home, Brentford a with ten-men)

Did people have this down as 3points and a game we'd control or something?!

HBA's off the field stuff rather than ability limited his career to OM, PSG, Newcastle and a certain amount of French caps, ASM is almost the antethsis off the pitch but a mostly Ashley NUFC is the pinnacle of his career so far. .

Exactly right for me. Would be more like the club selling Cole, Kelly and Peacock than Gascoigne, Beardsley and Waddle.

Were sympathisers of all sorts of things because we wont raze to the ground the football club that's been a massive part of our lives for most of our lives and in many cases our parents before that and a manifestation of the area we or they come from. It's infinitely easier to just not watch a match, England included but certainly between coutries they've no feelings for whatsoever and yet when it comes down to it, for the sake of a bit of entertainment, they won't even do that.

Worstock for me

Its pre-season 94/95 to me not 95/96 and that's fine and, unromantically, probably right, especially if 95/96 style suitably follows. Course if you're not old enough that's just a bunch of numbers

Nevermind getting worked up about lack of cover - remember when their club wouldn't even allow local TV to show coverage from their games to try and get more people to attend? which of course you have to do with a big club with great support

They think of themselves as a big club but get furious about local TV barely covering them?!

4 wins out of 4 in a row under Keegan, 5 out of 5 including his one under Ashley 5 wins in row - Sir Bobby, Souness and Roeder, 7 unbeaten + an Allardyce draw and Keegan win for 6 wins out of 9 unbeaten. funny how its all encompassing to them but we have to sit and think about it

Maybe because the game of football and 'Shots and Key Passes Following Carries' aren't the same thing. Stats like this don't tell you anywhere near as much as you own lying eyes. People don't need stats to tell me who played well and who didn't outside of Championship Manager. Better people than us, actual top professional coaches, don't seem to venture far from the appraisal many of us have of erratic. Hence why he's here and not playing for France. Despite the dribbling, shots/key passes/carries, keepy uppy stats.

Even more annoying and a little bit concering we lost to them. A truly bad team. Mind they didn't do much to win it which just adds to the frustration.

Well speaking of mental gymnstics - not sure how Abramovic doesn't come off worse still in that tweet. He backs the dictator Putin who props up the dictator Assad who meets with the Man City owners, which is implied to be bad and equal too the former.

He was the worst player on the pitch against Watford too. Happened to score the goal and that's the conundrum with us and for managers. The only other game I remember him playing up to the standards affixed to him in was against Leeds at home. I'd go along with 1 in 5 too. Used to think once a month throughout his time here but that's still a lot more than most of his teammates pre Eddie so didn't feel a risk at all then.

Absolutely right. People wanted Robert to work harder because it had to be possible. People want ASM to make the right decisions, play for the team more for the same reasons. Otherwise we just accept one being lazy and the other being stupid and that they'll never improve nor should we look to them to improve.

I was a Robert/Ginola/HBA defender but its only reasonable for fans to wonder if they'd be better off with someone more functional who is better for the team. At the end of the table were at and with the games tight as they are that's more pronounced than at the top where things can be indulged. Its not a witch-hunt on flair players but what's best for the team. Robert scored and supplied a ridiculous amount of goals that otherwise wouldn't have come. Really not sure ASM does. Nobody thought this about Peter Beardsley because of his attitude/workrate allied to his flair menat he was never a liability.

At least as good as anybody tonight I felt.

Still got us needing 6points. Got to be probable still. I just don't want 3 of them being at Burnley cos that will be like tonight, brutal game in a decrepit shithole with probably the same outcome. Change the title of this thread please, filled me with a nameless dread as soon as it stuck

There again people can argue that given how limited the team is can we afford to risk indiscipline that ASM brings as opposed to the less individually gifted Murphy/Fraser. Ie can we carry a flair player who is as likely to play badly as well but disrupt the team set up either way. I'd be happier to find out if we weren't still in a relegation battle.

We didn't lose a game after that Everton game without him mind and never looked like losing one either. Again that's the point people are making.

Basically said as much in my post like. Wilson's not scoring many from these great crosses either imho

Is that the one good game he's had this year? That's kind of the point. Leon Best scored 4 against West Ham in one game didn't he? Exceptions and rules.

Never thought he was going to be good so nothing's changed and can't be too angry. The most I expected was 5 headed goals and a threat from set-plays crosses and since we seem to only have Shelvey and Trippier capable of taking a set play or crossing I feel like I can't even judge him on the one thing I felt he'd bring to the table.

Plays bad more than he plays well I've always felt. Not having a go at him just at how massively over-rated he is by some people. Tonight was tricky because 10men is hard to judge against but we've played worse after he's come on these last two games not better as the conventional wisdom would assume. Though what options do we have?

I think the relative desperation lack of desperation was a factor. That X-factor you just can't coach. All things being equal like the first half I thought we were distinctly better than them, we are, part of why I'm so pissed off at it. Also at those horrible b8stards staying up.