Kid Icarus

Probably the most highly decorated manager we've ever had when he arrived. Won pretty much the lot domestically as Liverpool manager.

And you could definitely argue that Dalglish was the right appointment at the time as well. It's only really with the benefit of hindsight that it's seen as the start of a decline.

You're labouring something that's incredibly simple. We don't demand a team that wins, we demand a club that tries. Its simplicity and lack of grey area is why it was an effective message. Like I say, fair enough to say you disagree with it, fair enough to say that you think it no longer applies, but to deny its original meaning is getting into Jordon Peterson levels of 'what do you mean by "is" level over-analysis. IMHO anyway.

It's as self explanatory as it gets. It covers what is demanded and what isn't demanded. You can disagree with it, say that it only applied at the time, but denying its meaning is something else entirely.

The lesson is whatever you make of it. One man's 'we just need to get the replacement right this time' is another mans' 'maybe don't be an absolute cunt about the current legend that's our manager'

Open question, do we actually have any enduring principles then? Or do some of you just view the fanbase as a collective of individuals with nothing that can be universally co-signed on? The 'what is a club in any case?' one maybe?

I was under the impression that the slogan 'We don't demand a team that wins, we demand a club that tries' was a fairly self explanatory principle tbh.

Sorry yeah, I was looking at just in the league. It is 8 including 5 in the CL. Tbf my issue is more with thinking Barnes is shit than thinking Gordon is good.

Stats shagged your wife

Until this season you could count on one hand the number of Newcastle players and signings that Howe hasn't got a tune out of.

I was slightly wrong but it's 3.

Aye but goals and assists are pretty important stats tbf. That sounds nothing like the Anthony Gordon I've seen for 2 years, not consistently anyway, his end product is poor. Barnes might be of little use when he's not in form but when he is (which is more often than folk give him credit for) there's no comparison in terms of what he offers where it counts.

14 goals all from open play Harvey Barnes - shite 17 goals, 8 from open play, hadn't scored in the league for a year Anthony Gordon - good 3 goals Anthony Elanga - might be shite I get that it's not that simple but the amount of shade Barnes gets is mental.

I don't really have any words for someone who's experienced 4 and half years of this manager and most of these players and thinks the issue is lack of trying like. Just absolutely barmy, Howe's in training about an hour before most of us even get up ffs.

It's an answer that's convenient cover for the club that tries statement, but the idea that all three of those aren't trying is about as ridiculous as it gets. I didn't really buy that post earlier where someone said that people are equating winning with trying, but reading what you're saying there he might have a point.

That's the one!

That's the one!

Staveley and Ghodoussi were CEOs and we brought in someone whose name escapes me to support with signing players.

Nothing but your own confirmation bias. There's literally no evidence for any of what you're saying.

It's not been atrocious, but it needs a goal to get properly going.

We did sign Trippier, Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Botman, Gordon, Woltemade who were all at, strongly linked with, or bid for by Champions League regulars, but apart from that you have a point aye.

I regret watching this

Or much more simply, it's harder to get deals done with no CEO or DoF. When we did, we had no problem attracting players.

Would snap your hand off for that deal, we should never ever be selling players up the food chain within our league unless we're certain we're mugging them off.

It was just a comparison in the context of someone saying 'Ireola could do for us what Emery did for Villa' naturally followed by a few of us saying that Howe has done for us what Emery has for Villa.