TheEntertainer

Article on it here, where they talk about 3 years being a managerial cycle and to be successful after that period, managers need to re-invent themselves and their teams and continuing to try and do the same thing leads to failure. It's not fact like, but it's interesting. https://thesetpieces.com/latest-posts/football-managers-stay-clubs-three-years/

The problem isn't how close or not we are to par this season, the league position of 14th is definitely a contributing factor, but it's more the fact that we've been awful all season, looked mentally weak, are unable to hold onto leads, don't seem willing to try anything other than the tried and tested (even though it isn't working) and don't seem to be able to respond to other managers changes in games. It feels like Eddie's time is up to me, not because he isn't a great manager, just because managers tend to have a shelf life at any club and only the best of the best or those with unlimited funds (or both) can reset and go again when things stop working and he doesn't seem to know how to fix the current problems when his plan A isn't working anymore.

I'd take Mourinho, he'd not be top of my list but he gets a lot of unfair criticism because of how he is as a person. He was unreal at Porto, then at Chelsea, then at Inter, then at Real, came back to Chelsea and was great again. Went to a declining Man Utd and given what we've seen since was actually a success, winning the double in his first season and then finishing 2nd in the Prem the season after. Bear in mind what we've seen of Man Utd since then. He then went to Spurs and was a bit spotty there, BUT was sacked days before the league cup final and finished 6th in his first season which is about right for Spurs? He then went to Roma and they won their first trophy in 11 years under him (conference league so not massive, but I'd be overjoyed with that for Newcastle), in his second season they got to the Europa League final and lost on pens. He then went to Fenerbahce and finished 2nd in his first season, though that spell was definitely messy as he didn't like the Turkish league at all. I think he talked himself out of a job there. He's currently back at Benfica where they qualified for the knockouts of the Champions league and are 3rd in the league (2 points off second) that's about right for them as well. They probably want to be first, but that's not easy in a league with 3 massive teams. The last 5 years they've finished 1st once, 2nd twice and 3rd twice. I can't see where he's ever really underachieved? Sure he's not winning the Champions league every season like he was, but that's a bit of an unfair standard to hold someone to!

As has been mentioned hindsight is 20/20. I was very excited about this signing despite not agreeing with the way he downed tools. We massively overpaid, but I still expected him to be a great signing. He was probably actually worth around £30M given his age, but we had money and were over a barrel. If he'd have done what was expected I think the fee would have been quickly forgotten. He's obviously shown that he should probably be paying us to play for us so it's actually about £60M overspent, but I don't think anyone thought it was going to be quite this bad. He'd had two really good seasons for Brentford (only one as the main striker so less goals the season before but he still looked really good) so the signing seemed guaranteed success, I'm still not convinced he hasn't done lasting damage with the injury he got just after the signed, or maybe he is just a massive wanker who just wanted one last payday but that seems unlikely at 29.

I don't think you can argue it's a good thing he's involved in the recruitment either though as we just don't know and him being the managers nephew is definitely a red flag. We don't know if he's any good or not, or even how much actual say he had over the transfers though so it's all a moot point really. It does smell a bit off though, but there's no way of knowing if it actually is a bad thing really.

Yeah there's been a lot of comments about putting some respect on Howe's name and the like, there's been some more reasoned counter arguing as well, but there's been a fair chunk of calling people entitled or disrespectful for doubting Howe now.

Same, if he leaves via mutual consent or is sacked then lands at Liverpool, I certainly wouldn't hold that against him, if he left while under contract that would be a different kettle of fish.

I don't think many people are, I think the vast majority are saying he's been brilliant, a significant number are now saying it's a massive shame but it seems like it's not working anymore and we should think about parting ways for the best of both parties, with no animosity and enormous gratitude for what he's achieved. Obviously there's the odd person, but that's definitely not the majority.

I think there's a world where Liverpool could consider him, he's worked well with Isaak before and they have been succesful with high tempo pressing football, I'd be amazed if any of the other 'Big 5' went for him. He can be simultaneously a good manager who could do a job somewhere else and also someone who has come to the end of his tenure here. As has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, it's rare for a manager to last longer than a couple of years in modern football.

you're taking this completely out of context of everything else that has happened in the season though, as I say if it was a one off, I'd say it was bad luck and you could certainly argue that that particular incident isn't Howe's fault, but the team being under pressure in the last 15 minutes of the game and throwing away a lead is something we've seen all season and that is at least partially down to Howe and his decisions.

If it was a one off then yeah it would be super harsh

Hard disagree with that, I was expecting a 1-1 draw but feared a defeat, I actually posted this in the pre-match thread. It's the fact that we somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for the what 8th time this season? which has really hammered home to me that we need a change. I wanted him to make it work, I wanted to believe the people saying, don't worry about it, with a rested team and no Europe we'll be better. But we weren't, we were exactly as bad as we've been all season. Even holding on for a point would have given us something to think maybe we could turn the corner.

There's been significant criticism of the dis-organised mess above Howe over the season, that doesn't absolve him of all blame though.

Yeah the posts claiming if people were actually unhappy they should also complain after good results are almost as odd as the posts saying people are entitled for wanting a change after this torrid season with us being well into the bottom half of the league.

What do you think the entitled people are wrong about here? Expecting not to drop 25 points from winning positions? Not to be 14th in the league? Those both seem perfectly reasonable to me. I'd accept the entitled argument if people were demanding champions league every year but that's not what's happening here.

We're 14th, we should be 8th in a completely average season just looking at wage spend.

This has been a repeating pattern all season, same mistakes, same lack of ability to see a game out. I've thought for most of the season it felt like his time here was done and was fizzling out, I really hoped he was going to turn it around, but it's pretty clear now he's not going to. I think he has to go honestly. I don't think it really hurts to wait till the end of the season though as Champions league is unatainable and getting lower level European football won't really convince anyone to stay or come here. I don't think anyone could do worse at the minute though. We're 14th. Everyone behind us is properly crap, we're the worst of the rest currently.

Yeah, I'm secretly hoping the same, but I've been hurt too many times this season when I've got my hopes up so I'm not admitting it!

1-1, feels like it could go either way though, more likely to be a loss than a win, but I genuinely think either team could win it. We're dross currently, but they aren't great and have just played in Europe.

That's his job though right? To get the best from the players?

Maybe, I still think it's a pretty stupid thing to do to come out and say we should beat them because we're better than them given the evidence to the contrary.

Harsh on Parker, I don't think he's ever really underachieved in the Prem, 3 promotions and then not staying up which is probably what is expected of promoted teams? I'd be interested to see how he'd do at a club with more resources.

Dunno why my first response didn't quote you, user error I expect.

I think you can't argue with league position and two results. I know our players should be better on paper, but the games not played on paper.

Stupid comment, I get where he's coming from but they're above us in the league and have beaten us twice, pretty clear who is currently the better team...