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Xisco joins Deportivo on loan until the end of the season


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I was screaming to have him put on today.

 

Its a dissapointing affair to say the least. I can understand if maybe he isnt ready for the premier league or even suited to it, but why the hell arent we trying him out in the reserves?

 

I know JFK see's him in training every day, but he has played treble the amount of league games Carrol has, scored many times in one of the best leagues in the world and played with some great players.

 

I know we dont know the full facts (which is always the most frustrating albeit loop hole excuse) but for the love of God he must have something about him worth giving him a chance over Andy fucking Carrol

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1) Luque flopped probably because of that initial injury he had after playing one or two games for us (tore his hamstring). Plenty of players over the years have become completely s*** after a serious injury, their confidence goes downhill as does their form and before we know it they've become s*** overnight. We have someone like that in Damien Duff. Maybe Luque was never suited to Premiership football, who knows, but it's hard to come to that judgement when an injury has clearly affected him over the long term. Otherwise, why isn't he back in Spain doing the business for a good side if his failure here was merely down to not being suited to this league? He's quite clearly finished as a footballer.

 

2) Javier Mascherano is a prime example of how some foreign players merely need to be shown some faith in their ability by their managers, (and maybe need to be surrounded by decent players rather than incompetent s****) rather than be shown the could shoulder with little explanation for it. Five games or so in 6 months for West Ham under Pardew/Curbishley saw Mascherano labelled as a flop, unable to adjust to Premiership football, too weak/small for it, etc etc - as soon as he moves to Liverpool, it took only one game playing for a high calibre manager for us to suddenly see that Mascherano was in fact a fantastic defensive midfielder and was indeed well suited to Premiership football. Granted there are plenty of foreign players not suited to Premiership football (e.g. vast majority of South American players), but maybe it's not always the player who fails to adapt, but the manager who fails to do his job with respect to that player? Or it could even be that the formation/system works against the player, or even unfortunate timing or pressures, e.g. the manager unwilling to give an unproven unknown quantity too many chances when crucial points are at stake, and will prefer to go with what he knows.

 

Maybe Xisco is shit, but I certainly don't trust Joe Kinnear when it comes to seeing talent that might not be obvious to him because he has no track record of it.

 

Excellent point wrt Mascherano being considered a flop at West Ham. Pardew was another small-minded manager who couldn't see past the cloggers.

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I want Kinnear to come out and tell the media (and thus us) what the deal is with Xisco. Let's not beat around the bush; he wasn't cheap, he isn't an unknown, and he isn't a loan signing. He shouldn't just be written off.

 

He must be doing something really wrong to not be given a chance, and I'd like to hear what.

 

i agree

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I think Kinnear made it pretty clear when he came that non-English speakers were out of the team as he couldn't tell them what to do?

 

NUFC were probably fortunate at that time that there was no proper alternative to Coloccini.

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I think Kinnear made it pretty clear when he came that non-English speakers were out of the team as he couldn't tell them what to do?

 

NUFC were probably fortunate at that time that there was no proper alternative to Coloccini.

 

Xisco speaks english though.

 

Like a load of people have already said, it's got to be personal.

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I think Kinnear made it pretty clear when he came that non-English speakers were out of the team as he couldn't tell them what to do?

 

NUFC were probably fortunate at that time that there was no proper alternative to Coloccini.

 

Xisco speaks english though.

 

Like a load of people have already said, it's got to be personal.

 

You sure? I've never seen him speak.

 

The language barrier has not helped Xisco or fellow new boy Fabricio Coloccini settle in, and Kinnear has admitted that making his point to a dressing room full of so many foreign players is a new experience.

 

He has leant heavily on Jose Enrique to translate to the Spanish speakers and placed an emphasis on demonstration rather than communication on the training pitch, a trick that he hopes will have the desired effect with Newcastle’s new arrival.

 

Players who have served under him single out his motivational skills as the key to past successes, and again that is where Kinnear is focusing most of his energy.

 

“Every manager has a way of motivating a player, telling them to do this or do that,” he said. “I’ve told Xisco ‘you’re not making the runs, you’re not getting to the near post – Damien Duff is putting all these crosses in and you’ve not been on the end of one of them’.

 

“So I stop training and I say ‘Now, why are you there? Why aren’t you attacking that run? Why are you outside the box when you’re job is to be inside the box putting it in the net?’ You can do that with an English player immediately.”

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from the limited viewings i've had of both players, xisco is definitly worth a go infront of carroll

 

I have that feeling as well. Carroll doesn't look like a goal scorer, I think Joe likes him because he's big and strong. Xisco looks less physical but he looks like he might have more quality around the penalty area. Hard to tell from a couple of brief outings, but I'd like to see him in a decent side before i write him off.

not just the goals but all round play

 

Agreed. He's no Viduka but he looks a bit more polished than Carroll. I wouldn't have even minded seeing him alongside Carroll for the last 10 mins with the wingers firing a few crosses in.

 

Comparing Xisco with Carroll is like comparing a Lada with a Reliant Kitten.

 

Possibly. I'd like to see Xisco properly before we ship him out though. A lot of Newcastle fans thought Jon Dahl Tomasson was s*** at Newcastle but he went on to win the Champions League at AC Milan.

 

I have watched JDT many times over the years play against British club teams & England at international  & he has always been crap but playing elsewhere overall he has been a success. I don't think being shite at Newcastle & playing for AC makes you good, look at Andreas Anderson.

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I think Kinnear made it pretty clear when he came that non-English speakers were out of the team as he couldn't tell them what to do?

 

NUFC were probably fortunate at that time that there was no proper alternative to Coloccini.

 

Xisco speaks english though.

 

Like a load of people have already said, it's got to be personal.

 

You sure? I've never seen him speak.

 

The language barrier has not helped Xisco or fellow new boy Fabricio Coloccini settle in, and Kinnear has admitted that making his point to a dressing room full of so many foreign players is a new experience.

 

He has leant heavily on Jose Enrique to translate to the Spanish speakers and placed an emphasis on demonstration rather than communication on the training pitch, a trick that he hopes will have the desired effect with Newcastle’s new arrival.

 

Players who have served under him single out his motivational skills as the key to past successes, and again that is where Kinnear is focusing most of his energy.

 

“Every manager has a way of motivating a player, telling them to do this or do that,” he said. “I’ve told Xisco ‘you’re not making the runs, you’re not getting to the near post – Damien Duff is putting all these crosses in and you’ve not been on the end of one of them’.

 

“So I stop training and I say ‘Now, why are you there? Why aren’t you attacking that run? Why are you outside the box when you’re job is to be inside the box putting it in the net?’ You can do that with an English player immediately.”

 

Hmmm, you may be right then. I was sure I'd seen some clips of him speaking english when he got here.

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Unless they quite clearly can't play football at all, I think anyone who believes they can suitably judge a player in three appearances (especially under the circumstances) has a rather over-inflated opinion of themselves.

 

Your usually sharper than most Wullie but out interest were you in a minority demanding Fumaca didnt get a chance?

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1) Luque flopped probably because of that initial injury he had after playing one or two games for us (tore his hamstring). Plenty of players over the years have become completely s*** after a serious injury, their confidence goes downhill as does their form and before we know it they've become s*** overnight. We have someone like that in Damien Duff. Maybe Luque was never suited to Premiership football, who knows, but it's hard to come to that judgement when an injury has clearly affected him over the long term. Otherwise, why isn't he back in Spain doing the business for a good side if his failure here was merely down to not being suited to this league? He's quite clearly finished as a footballer.

 

2) Javier Mascherano is a prime example of how some foreign players merely need to be shown some faith in their ability by their managers, (and maybe need to be surrounded by decent players rather than incompetent s****) rather than be shown the could shoulder with little explanation for it. Five games or so in 6 months for West Ham under Pardew/Curbishley saw Mascherano labelled as a flop, unable to adjust to Premiership football, too weak/small for it, etc etc - as soon as he moves to Liverpool, it took only one game playing for a high calibre manager for us to suddenly see that Mascherano was in fact a fantastic defensive midfielder and was indeed well suited to Premiership football. Granted there are plenty of foreign players not suited to Premiership football (e.g. vast majority of South American players), but maybe it's not always the player who fails to adapt, but the manager who fails to do his job with respect to that player? Or it could even be that the formation/system works against the player, or even unfortunate timing or pressures, e.g. the manager unwilling to give an unproven unknown quantity too many chances when crucial points are at stake, and will prefer to go with what he knows.

 

Maybe Xisco is shit, but I certainly don't trust Joe Kinnear when it comes to seeing talent that might not be obvious to him because he has no track record of it.

 

Good point about Mascherano.

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1) Luque flopped probably because of that initial injury he had after playing one or two games for us (tore his hamstring). Plenty of players over the years have become completely s*** after a serious injury, their confidence goes downhill as does their form and before we know it they've become s*** overnight. We have someone like that in Damien Duff. Maybe Luque was never suited to Premiership football, who knows, but it's hard to come to that judgement when an injury has clearly affected him over the long term. Otherwise, why isn't he back in Spain doing the business for a good side if his failure here was merely down to not being suited to this league? He's quite clearly finished as a footballer.

 

2) Javier Mascherano is a prime example of how some foreign players merely need to be shown some faith in their ability by their managers, (and maybe need to be surrounded by decent players rather than incompetent s****) rather than be shown the could shoulder with little explanation for it. Five games or so in 6 months for West Ham under Pardew/Curbishley saw Mascherano labelled as a flop, unable to adjust to Premiership football, too weak/small for it, etc etc - as soon as he moves to Liverpool, it took only one game playing for a high calibre manager for us to suddenly see that Mascherano was in fact a fantastic defensive midfielder and was indeed well suited to Premiership football. Granted there are plenty of foreign players not suited to Premiership football (e.g. vast majority of South American players), but maybe it's not always the player who fails to adapt, but the manager who fails to do his job with respect to that player? Or it could even be that the formation/system works against the player, or even unfortunate timing or pressures, e.g. the manager unwilling to give an unproven unknown quantity too many chances when crucial points are at stake, and will prefer to go with what he knows.

 

Maybe Xisco is shit, but I certainly don't trust Joe Kinnear when it comes to seeing talent that might not be obvious to him because he has no track record of it.

 

Really good post, that. Agree entirely. The Xisco situation reeks of woeful man-management iyam.

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And what the fuck happens if he can't sell him, eh? What a fucking joke that would turn out to be. So he's just sat in the doldrums for the rest of the season.

 

I've tried to give Kinnear my time of day but i really can't fucking abide the bloke.

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A bits pieces striker from La Liga getting compared to Mascherano, a player who improved when he went from the bottom club in the Prem to join one of the top teams.

 

Comparing him to Nacho Novo would of been more on a par.

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And what the f*** happens if he can't sell him, eh? What a f***ing joke that would turn out to be. So he's just sat in the doldrums for the rest of the season.

 

I think there are decent amount of big teams in the Segunda Division who would be willing to loan him for a fee & then buy if promoted.

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from the limited viewings i've had of both players, xisco is definitly worth a go infront of carroll

 

I have that feeling as well. Carroll doesn't look like a goal scorer, I think Joe likes him because he's big and strong. Xisco looks less physical but he looks like he might have more quality around the penalty area. Hard to tell from a couple of brief outings, but I'd like to see him in a decent side before i write him off.

not just the goals but all round play

 

Agreed. He's no Viduka but he looks a bit more polished than Carroll. I wouldn't have even minded seeing him alongside Carroll for the last 10 mins with the wingers firing a few crosses in.

 

Comparing Xisco with Carroll is like comparing a Lada with a Reliant Kitten.

 

Possibly. I'd like to see Xisco properly before we ship him out though. A lot of Newcastle fans thought Jon Dahl Tomasson was s*** at Newcastle but he went on to win the Champions League at AC Milan.

 

I have watched JDT many times over the years play against British club teams & England at international  & he has always been crap but playing elsewhere overall he has been a success. I don't think being shite at Newcastle & playing for AC makes you good, look at Andreas Anderson.

Andreas Andersson was a flop at Milan then he came here. JDT was farily successful everywhere but Newcastle. He was a fairly specialist player though, in that he needed to be playing behind the main striker, a bit like Owen last season for us in the 4-3-3. At Newcastle he was playing as the main striker in front of our most uncreative midfield of possibly all time under Dalglish the Dour.
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A bits pieces striker from La Liga getting compared to Mascherano, a player who improved when he went from the bottom club in the Prem to join one of the top teams.

 

Comparing him to Nacho Novo would of been more on a par.

 

The standard of player doesn't really matter. It just turns out that Tmonkey's example is actually a top quality player...

 

Xisco quite clearly had some decent talent in La Liga, and i believe Jimenez (or whoever it was) when they felt he was worth £6m, given the Jonas and Coloccini signings. The point Tmonkey is making is that a young foreigner can look absolutely doghshit for a shit manager, and be regarded as a flop, and yet look a much better player under a much better manager.

 

Obviously - i have don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to bigging up Xisco's ability as i haven't seen him play; i simply don't feel that he is the total flop that he has now been labelled. He scored 10 goals in La Liga last season, and he's a young lad. Who did that in the PL last season, Agbonlahor? That argument is hardly water-tight, i know... but the point is he was an excellent prospect in Spain and we snapped him up for a fair price. The fact he hasn't been given a go is infuriating.

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Guest LucaAltieri

I'd like to see him loaned out if Kinnear really doesn't rate him. If he can prove himself elsewhere then he might be given a fair go of it when he returns. Flogging him 6 months after buying him would be lunacy. Especially if we're selling at a loss. I can't imagine for the second that Ashley would be prepared to do that.

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I sincerely hope that's even more rubbish from Kinnear.

 

what a f***ing tool.

 

 

Why's that (presume you mean JFK) ?

 

Some transfers work, some don't. Thats football.

 

If he wants to get rid of a player 'he' doesn't rate, and I presume this has been ok'd by his boss, to bring someone else in that 'he' does rate then go for it I say.

 

Anyway, if as reported we've just spunked £6m on the rangers player then we've not sold before we've bought.

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