Guest Chris P Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 That's the major issue in all of this , MA has gone , he wants nowt to do with us any longer, But he wants his money out. Fair enough. But ,,,, whoever buys, has got to have cash otherwise were fucked. The reality of the situation is that by getting rid of Ashley we could actually be digging our own graves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 That's the major issue in all of this , MA has gone , he wants nowt to do with us any longer, But he wants his money out. Fair enough. But ,,,, whoever buys, has got to have cash otherwise were fucked. The reality of the situation is that by getting rid of Ashley we could actually be digging our own graves Having the cash is useless without the ambition. Mike Ashley is the perfect example of that. Ideally the next owner will have both, but if not I'll settle for someone who is committed to moving the club forward in any way they can. Hopefully their decision-making will be slightly better as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris P Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 That's the major issue in all of this , MA has gone , he wants nowt to do with us any longer, But he wants his money out. Fair enough. But ,,,, whoever buys, has got to have cash otherwise were f***ed. The reality of the situation is that by getting rid of Ashley we could actually be digging our own graves Having the cash is useless without the ambition. Mike Ashley is the perfect example of that. Ideally the next owner will have both, but if not I'll settle for someone who is committed to moving the club forward in any way they can. Hopefully their decision-making will be slightly better as a result. i dont think mr Ashley bought our football club and decided to throw his ambition into touch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The evidence suggests otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris P Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 And on that note! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I still don't think he will sell the club. I agree. In some ways I'd rather he didn't, tbh. Please explain I see that Chris P has pretty much taken up the argument on my behlaf whilst I've been watching Falling Down on ITV4. But I'll recap/paraphrase my own thoughts with a rather NE5-like "Be careful what you wish for"/"Better the Devil you know" type message. At no point so far have we been shown any evidence that Moat's credentials to own/run the club (other than Moat being a Geordie and a mate of Big Al's) are any better than Mike Ashley's credentials. We think things are bad now - but then you have to remember the shit that Leeds went through in the aftermath of ousting Ridsdale, etc etc. Just when you think things have reached their nadir, you get a further nasty surprise. It's not all that long ago that Ashley was being feted as the new saviour - Shepherd was gone, Ashley was here...woo-hoo! And now look what we've got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikri Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The evidence suggests otherwise. Success breeds a disregard of the possibility of failure Ashley's a self made billionaire, well OK, millionaire now but he was a billionaire when he bought us. He didn't blink when he lost £400m on HBOS shares, he probably believes, or believed, that he's able to make a success of anything that he puts his hand to, even running a very expensive football club on a shoestring budget. He'll have believed that he'd be able to make a success of it, if anything, he'll probably blame the failure on those that he placed his trust in - Llambias & Keegan are the most obvious scapegoats and if the rumours about him ditching Llambias are true then it would seem to add credence to that line of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I still don't think he will sell the club. I agree. In some ways I'd rather he didn't, tbh. Please explain I see that Chris P has pretty much taken up the argument on my behlaf whilst I've been watching Falling Down on ITV4. But I'll recap/paraphrase my own thoughts with a rather NE5-like "Be careful what you wish for"/"Better the Devil you know" type message. At no point so far have we been shown any evidence that Moat's credentials to own/run the club (other than Moat being a Geordie and a mate of Big Al's) are any better than Mike Ashley's credentials. We think things are bad now - but then you have to remember the shit that Leeds went through in the aftermath of ousting Ridsdale, etc etc. Just when you think things have reached their nadir, you get a further nasty surprise. It's not all that long ago that Ashley was being feted as the new saviour - Shepherd was gone, Ashley was here...woo-hoo! And now look what we've got. Fair enough. I just don't see how anyone could be worse than a Mike Ashley who doesn't want to be here. He clearly won't put any money into the club, and he's making no attempts to run us at all, let alone run us properly. Even if he did take us off the market again, as soon as another backlash hits him, he'll be coming out with this same shite again and try to sell, bringing on another drawn out saga of deadlines and instability. We desperately need to get rid of him this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I still don't think he will sell the club. I agree. In some ways I'd rather he didn't, tbh. Please explain I see that Chris P has pretty much taken up the argument on my behlaf whilst I've been watching Falling Down on ITV4. But I'll recap/paraphrase my own thoughts with a rather NE5-like "Be careful what you wish for"/"Better the Devil you know" type message. At no point so far have we been shown any evidence that Moat's credentials to own/run the club (other than Moat being a Geordie and a mate of Big Al's) are any better than Mike Ashley's credentials. We think things are bad now - but then you have to remember the shit that Leeds went through in the aftermath of ousting Ridsdale, etc etc. Just when you think things have reached their nadir, you get a further nasty surprise. It's not all that long ago that Ashley was being feted as the new saviour - Shepherd was gone, Ashley was here...woo-hoo! And now look what we've got. Fair enough. I just don't see how anyone could be worse than a Mike Ashley who doesn't want to be here. He clearly won't put any money into the club, and he's making no attempts to run us at all, let alone run us properly. Even if he did take us off the market again, as soon as another backlash hits him, he'll be coming out with this same shite again and try to sell, bringing on another drawn out saga of deadlines and instability. We desperately need to get rid of him this time. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm keen to keep him. Just that I still think there's possibly worse options out there we could have thrust upon us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Yeah. I'm not saying I'm keen to keep him. Just that I still think there's possibly worse options out there we could have thrust upon us. I know for a fact that no matter who comes in to take over the club, I am going to be paranoid - expecting problems to be just around the corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I still don't think he will sell the club. I agree. In some ways I'd rather he didn't, tbh. Please explain I see that Chris P has pretty much taken up the argument on my behlaf whilst I've been watching Falling Down on ITV4. But I'll recap/paraphrase my own thoughts with a rather NE5-like "Be careful what you wish for"/"Better the Devil you know" type message. At no point so far have we been shown any evidence that Moat's credentials to own/run the club (other than Moat being a Geordie and a mate of Big Al's) are any better than Mike Ashley's credentials. We think things are bad now - but then you have to remember the shit that Leeds went through in the aftermath of ousting Ridsdale, etc etc. Just when you think things have reached their nadir, you get a further nasty surprise. It's not all that long ago that Ashley was being feted as the new saviour - Shepherd was gone, Ashley was here...woo-hoo! And now look what we've got. Fair enough. I just don't see how anyone could be worse than a Mike Ashley who doesn't want to be here. He clearly won't put any money into the club, and he's making no attempts to run us at all, let alone run us properly. Even if he did take us off the market again, as soon as another backlash hits him, he'll be coming out with this same shite again and try to sell, bringing on another drawn out saga of deadlines and instability. We desperately need to get rid of him this time. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm keen to keep him. Just that I still think there's possibly worse options out there we could have thrust upon us. Without doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 That's the major issue in all of this , MA has gone , he wants nowt to do with us any longer, But he wants his money out. Fair enough. But ,,,, whoever buys, has got to have cash otherwise were f***ed. The reality of the situation is that by getting rid of Ashley we could actually be digging our own graves Having the cash is useless without the ambition. Mike Ashley is the perfect example of that. Ideally the next owner will have both, but if not I'll settle for someone who is committed to moving the club forward in any way they can. Hopefully their decision-making will be slightly better as a result. i dont think mr Ashley bought our football club and decided to throw his ambition into touch Let's say Mike Ashley keeps the club and we get promoted next year...is there anyone who can make a convincing case that he will attempt to hire a competent manager and invest in the players we will undoubtedly need in the Premier? If he's so much richer than Barry Moat, will he actually use any of his wealth to take the club forward and what reason is there for thinking he might do so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I agree with you. The thing that makes me doubt Moat's ability is this whole overdraft thing, he knew all about it before he made his offer (assuming he has), why is he now struggling so much with it. That smacks of bad preparation, of hope over expectation, and it worries me as we've been there before with Shepherd. Come off it, you claim poor preparation and make no effort to mention that our current owner hadn't even looked at publicly available accounts. Moat will find it harder to get the overdraft as I suspect Ash has partly cash collateralised to overdraft with Barclays. He sticks in £15m of his own cash into a charged bank account and if the club dont pay it back on demand, Barclays keep Mike's personal readies as security. Moat can't do that, he doesn't have the spare cash to do it. So naturally the bank are considerably more nervous about lending to such a godawful business proposition as NUFC. Moat has never come out and publicly stated how close he is to a deal, only that by his prescence in the directors box that he is clearly in the process of making an offer. The status of the club's overdrafts and the security needed would only become clear after several weeks of negotiations with the bank and its credit function. Clearly the first attempt failed and there is now a move to present a more paletable case. That's not something you can do straight away, unlike looking at a balance sheet for 30 seconds which our dear leader apparently didn't bother to do. I find it odd that so many people are concerned at Moat's lack of cash. I don't see any oil barons queuing round the corner and the current owner is clearly not planning to invest, so what exactly are we supposed to do? We're not owed a takeover- what is wrong with the club investing because fans are back onside again, selling out the ground and increasing merchandise sales? Moat could do that- if he has the business sense. Equally, we don't know who is behind Moat's bid- so it far too early to act as judge and jury on his bid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Maybe £30-40m would be enough, I never said it wouldn't be, but it's not clear-cut. £30-40m doesn't go that far in the Premiership, especially when you include wages. It'd equate to four or five quality players at most and when you consider the position we'd be starting from it's not implausible for it not to be enough. Five good players added to our current squad (minus Geremi and Butt) would make us a better side then last year unless we buy utter crocks, and I've little doubt we'd have stayed up last year with any half decent manager for the whole season. Harper New, Taylor, Colo, Enrique New, Guthrie, New, Jonas New New We may even end up selling one or two and replacing them with the money we bring in, like Colo or possibly Jonas. Either way we'd have the money necessary IMO. I bet if we look at the average expenditure of promoted teams that have stayed up over the last few years it'll be nowhere near £30m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthnufc Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Maybe £30-40m would be enough, I never said it wouldn't be, but it's not clear-cut. £30-40m doesn't go that far in the Premiership, especially when you include wages. It'd equate to four or five quality players at most and when you consider the position we'd be starting from it's not implausible for it not to be enough. Five good players added to our current squad (minus Geremi and Butt) would make us a better side then last year unless we buy utter crocks. Harper Simpson, Taylor, New, Enrique New, Guthrie, Barton, New Loven New Also I've little doubt had we had any half decent manager for the whole of last season we'd have stayed up anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Not sure Lovenkrands is good enough for anything other then backup on the Premiership and I'd also have big question marks over Simpson. Barton's been shit so far and I'd rather have a more creative player in the middle with Guthrie. Colo is question mark despite his good performances as is Jonas. However if we sell them we can hopefully get enough money from those transfers to replace them so it wouldn't be included in the £30m or so, so I've just left them in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I agree with you. The thing that makes me doubt Moat's ability is this whole overdraft thing, he knew all about it before he made his offer (assuming he has), why is he now struggling so much with it. That smacks of bad preparation, of hope over expectation, and it worries me as we've been there before with Shepherd. Come off it, you claim poor preparation and make no effort to mention that our current owner hadn't even looked at publicly available accounts. Moat will find it harder to get the overdraft as I suspect Ash has partly cash collateralised to overdraft with Barclays. He sticks in £15m of his own cash into a charged bank account and if the club dont pay it back on demand, Barclays keep Mike's personal readies as security. Moat can't do that, he doesn't have the spare cash to do it. So naturally the bank are considerably more nervous about lending to such a godawful business proposition as NUFC. Moat has never come out and publicly stated how close he is to a deal, only that by his prescence in the directors box that he is clearly in the process of making an offer. The status of the club's overdrafts and the security needed would only become clear after several weeks of negotiations with the bank and its credit function. Clearly the first attempt failed and there is now a move to present a more paletable case. That's not something you can do straight away, unlike looking at a balance sheet for 30 seconds which our dear leader apparently didn't bother to do. I find it odd that so many people are concerned at Moat's lack of cash. I don't see any oil barons queuing round the corner and the current owner is clearly not planning to invest, so what exactly are we supposed to do? We're not owed a takeover- what is wrong with the club investing because fans are back onside again, selling out the ground and increasing merchandise sales? Moat could do that- if he has the business sense. Equally, we don't know who is behind Moat's bid- so it far too early to act as judge and jury on his bid. Yeah, that was a mistake, I fail to see how it would negate (or in fact have any relevance to) someone else making another unrelated mistake. No-one's writing anything off, at least I'm not, simply expressing my concerns about the situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sa1tY Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Correctamundo ash is not selling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redheugh Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Correctamundo ash is not selling Yes he is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Correctamundo ash is not selling Yes he is "YES WE CAN" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintdempsey Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Correctamundo ash is not selling Yes he is So any news then Sillius? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToonBart Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. Correctamundo ash is not selling Yes he is when? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Doesnt back Keegan. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Doesnt appoint Shearer after relegation. Puts club on the market to appease fans. Both were holding strategies. most fans seemed pretty pissed off or worried when he put it up for sale this most recent time though. though it is possible that what you describe could've been just what Ashley was thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCW1983 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I promised my self that if i was to win the 85m euro millions last weekend i was going to become a major investor in NUFC, back to work then .......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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