Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Do we want to be part of a Federal Europe? Interestingly the Tories are offering a referendum on it, which way would you vote? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Do we want to be part of a Federal Europe? Interestingly the Tories are offering a referendum on it, which way would you vote? are they ? when did that happen ? i was out last night if it was on the news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Do we want to be part of a Federal Europe? Interestingly the Tories are offering a referendum on it, which way would you vote? are they ? when did that happen ? i was out last night if it was on the news. If they win the election they will offer a referendum before full ratification apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Do we want to be part of a Federal Europe? Interestingly the Tories are offering a referendum on it, which way would you vote? are they ? when did that happen ? i was out last night if it was on the news. If they win the election they will offer a referendum before full ratification apparently. not so sure about that. didn't dave say that they "wouldn't let it rest" if it hadn't been ratified by everyone else. when pressed on it,as usual, he wouldn't actually guve a clear answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngimp Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Some people seem to want to jump into the deep end, I urge caution and I get accused of being anti europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Some guff about the treaty: "The second reason is Lisbon's constitutional revolution. Lisbon would re-found the European Union on a new constitutional basis by abolishing the European Community which at present makes European laws, transferring the Community's powers and institutions to the legally new Union that Lisbon would establish, and then giving this new Union its own legal personality so that it can act separately from and superior to its member states for the first time." Irish Times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Some people seem to want to jump into the deep end, I urge caution and I get accused of being anti europe. Don't want it. And don't give a shit about coming across as anti-europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i'm broadly in favour of the EU but it has to be more democratic and transparent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i'm broadly in favour of the EU but it has to be more democratic and transparent. Apparatchiks will be there dreaming up new laws/rules and they will be passed on mass by the big four block vote (under the new proposed rules)...Fuck that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngimp Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I can see the benefits of a united europe but i can also see the problems that come with it. So many differnt cultures and traditions being pulled together really quickly, needs more time in my opinion. And, Norway seems to do ok on its own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i'm broadly in favour of the EU but it has to be more democratic and transparent. Basically this. I like the idea of a closer knit european community in principle but even following it to some extent I find it very hard to understand what all the implications of the EU are in its present state. It will happen eventually in some form though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngimp Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Who was it on here who said they would be happy that Tony Blair could be the first E.U President? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I can see the benefits of a united europe but i can also see the problems that come with it. So many differnt cultures and traditions being pulled together really quickly, needs more time in my opinion. And, Norway seems to do ok on its own. i've no problem about differing cultures etc as regionalism seems better thought of at EU level than state level. norway and switzerland have bothbeen bullied by the EU on certain domestic issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Who was it on here who said they would be happy that Tony Blair could be the first E.U President? You might be confusing a statement I made to you about him potentially becoming the first EU pres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. "our"? Germany's or the UK's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. good. our competitiveness at the minute is based around the taxpayer handing out grants and workers being easier to sack than our competitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. "our"? Germany's or the UK's? UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. good. our competitiveness at the minute is based around the taxpayer handing out grants and workers being easier to sack than our competitors. Most of German and French big industry is susidised by the state in various ways. It's not good making workers almost impossible to sack as it is here and paying them to sit around 80% of their former wages. It is why Germany is essentially fucked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. good. our competitiveness at the minute is based around the taxpayer handing out grants and workers being easier to sack than our competitors. Most of German and French big industry is susidised by the state in various ways. It's not good making workers almost impossible to sack as it is here and paying them to sit around 80% of their former wages. It is why Germany is essentially f***ed. and it's not good that we have 0hr contracts and minimum rights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngimp Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Who was it on here who said they would be happy that Tony Blair could be the first E.U President? You might be confusing a statement I made to you about him potentially becoming the first EU pres. Possibly aye. Sorry if I took it the wrong way. Say if we do become the E.U in the next couple of years, what do we do with Knackers like berlusconi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. good. our competitiveness at the minute is based around the taxpayer handing out grants and workers being easier to sack than our competitors. Most of German and French big industry is susidised by the state in various ways. It's not good making workers almost impossible to sack as it is here and paying them to sit around 80% of their former wages. It is why Germany is essentially f***ed. and it's not good that we have 0hr contracts and minimum rights. Rights have to be earnt. But we are getting away from the core issue, that this treaty will essentially make the EU undemocratic and Federal in a bad way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northerngimp Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Parky, you need to add an option, of "eventually at some point, basically when it suits the UK" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Next will be harmonisation of tax and then employment law. Our competitive edge down the drain basically. good. our competitiveness at the minute is based around the taxpayer handing out grants and workers being easier to sack than our competitors. Most of German and French big industry is susidised by the state in various ways. It's not good making workers almost impossible to sack as it is here and paying them to sit around 80% of their former wages. It is why Germany is essentially f***ed. and it's not good that we have 0hr contracts and minimum rights. Rights have to be earnt. But we are getting away from the core issue, that this treaty will essentially make the EU undemocratic and Federal in a bad way. In what way? From my limited understanding of it is the plan to centralise the government and basically try to cut costs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Parky, you need to add an option, of "eventually at some point, basically when it suits the UK" ie never. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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