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Waco Siege


Cajun
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Was pretty drunk last night and can't remember where I saw this mentioned but when looking up Dr Pepper it mentioned it was made in Waco and reminded me.

 

I don't know how I have never heard of this siege before, I would have been 11 when it happened so not really too young not to pay attention.

 

Anyway although a tragedy it is a really interesting read, might look at getting a DVD on it. Quite surprising how many English nationals were involved too.

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Guest Lazlo

Was pretty drunk last night and can't remember where I saw this mentioned but when looking up Dr Pepper it mentioned it was made in Waco and reminded me.

 

I don't know how I have never heard of this siege before, I would have been 11 when it happened so not really too young not to pay attention.

 

Anyway although a tragedy it is a really interesting read, might look at getting a DVD on it. Quite surprising how many English nationals were involved too.

 

It's one of those things where you'll probably never know the truth. Koresh was a proper heed the baal. Incendary was probably shot in by the us, then the fire trucks were stopped (allegedly) I'd save your money in buying the dvd

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Yeah watched quite a bit on youtube now so don't think I will need a dvd.

 

Definitely some unanswered questions from both sides. The police/AFT probably over reacted but if Koresh and his cult had let them in there wouldn't have been any problems.

 

Such a stupid reason for a lot of people to lose their lives! Do you know why about half this cult were English, is that rare for an American cult?

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I'm not a conspiracy idiot but the whole think stank. There had been several chances for the FBI to arrest him (he used to go to the local shops) but they wanted a siege to test their new powers from what I've read.

 

They also made a big deal of the weapons found but there were actually a pretty low number considering how in Texas there are 3 guns (51m) for every one citizen (17m) .

 

Not saying he wasn't a nutter mind.

 

 

 

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I'm not a conspiracy idiot but the whole think stank. There had been several chances for the FBI to arrest him (he used to go to the local shops) but they wanted a siege to test their new powers from what I've read.

 

They also made a big deal of the weapons found but there were actually a pretty low number considering how in Texas there are 3 guns (51m) for every one citizen (17m) .

 

Not saying he wasn't a nutter mind.

 

 

 

 

I don't know about that, a cult where he is the only man allowed to have sex with the women.....  :laugh:

 

 

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Ladies man:

 

"When Koresh announced that God had instructed him to marry Rachel Jones" gonna use that one.

 

"Up until then Koresh had been teaching that monogamy was the only way to live, but he suddenly announced that polygamy was allowed for him. In March 1986, Koresh first slept with Karen Doyle, aged 14. He claimed her as his second wife. In August 1986, Koresh began secretly sleeping with Michele Jones, his wife's younger 12-year-old sister. In September 1986 Koresh began to preach that he was entitled to 140 wives, 60 women as his "queens" and 80 as concubines"

 

"Once he was able to convince himself that it was God's will then he was able to be free of guilt and have sex with as many young girls as he could get his hands on."

 

 

Just normal behaviour:

 

"By late 1987, George Roden's support had withered. To regain it, he challenged Koresh to a contest to raise the dead, even digging up one corpse to practice on it. Koresh went to authorities to file charges of corpse abuse against Roden, but was told he would have to show proof (such as a photograph of the corpse). Koresh returned to Mount Carmel in camouflage, with seven armed followers. All but one - who managed to escape - were arrested by the local police, who had been alerted by the sound of gunfire. When deputy sheriffs arrived, they found Koresh and six followers firing their rifles at Roden, who was also armed. Roden had already suffered a minor gunshot wound and was pinned down behind a tree at the Compound. The sheriff called into the chapel by telephone and talked Koresh into surrender. As a result of the incident, Koresh and his followers were charged with attempted murder. At the trial, Koresh testified that he went to Mount Carmel to uncover evidence of corpse abuse by George Roden. Koresh's followers were acquitted, and in Koresh's case a mistrial was declared."

 

 

Nutters breed more nutters:

 

"The Mount Carmel raid and the 1992 Ruby Ridge incident were cited by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols as motivations for the Oklahoma City bombing. The terrorist act, on April 19, 1995, was timed to coincide with the second anniversary of the Waco seige."

 

 

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I am not one to support conspiracy theories but the ATF and the FBI f*cked this one up and then tried to justify it after the fact - ergo coverup.

 

See "Rules of Engagement" the WACO documentary.

 

Owning guns is actually not a crime - especially in Texas - they talked big about paedo stuff and plural marriage after the fact. The ATF stands for Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and that is what they police, none of that other stuff. They came in shooting, the Koresh followers shot back. The FBI came in took over after the ATF proved themselves to be worthless. The FBI asked the Koresh followers to give up, they said no, so the FBI performed psychological warfare on them, picked a couple of them off with snipers and then eventually torched the place. Bit out of bounds IMO.

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It's Iraq all over again, just without the oil.

 

They had suspicions that they had illegal firearms/hadn't paid taxes on certain weapons didn't they? So they wanted to search the place, weren't allowed. Tried to enter by force, were shot at and retaliated.

 

Did the FBI really torch the place? There seem to be a number of theories from accidentally puncturing propane tanks to religions nut jobs killing themselves rather than being taken in.

 

There was likely cover ups of some sort but all parties where somewhat to blame. You can't just refuse to let an authority with legal permission search your premises and start shooting at them when they do.

 

I feel sorry for the children and those who were brainwashed into thinking it was right.

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I am not one to support conspiracy theories but the ATF and the FBI f*cked this one up and then tried to justify it after the fact - ergo coverup.

 

See "Rules of Engagement" the WACO documentary.

 

Owning guns is actually not a crime - especially in Texas - they talked big about paedo stuff and plural marriage after the fact. The ATF stands for Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and that is what they police, none of that other stuff. They came in shooting, the Koresh followers shot back. The FBI came in took over after the ATF proved themselves to be worthless. The FBI asked the Koresh followers to give up, they said no, so the FBI performed psychological warfare on them, picked a couple of them off with snipers and then eventually torched the place. Bit out of bounds IMO.

 

Pretty much covered it there.

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I am not one to support conspiracy theories but the ATF and the FBI f*cked this one up and then tried to justify it after the fact - ergo coverup.

 

See "Rules of Engagement" the WACO documentary.

 

Owning guns is actually not a crime - especially in Texas - they talked big about paedo stuff and plural marriage after the fact. The ATF stands for Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms and that is what they police, none of that other stuff. They came in shooting, the Koresh followers shot back. The FBI came in took over after the ATF proved themselves to be worthless. The FBI asked the Koresh followers to give up, they said no, so the FBI performed psychological warfare on them, picked a couple of them off with snipers and then eventually torched the place. Bit out of bounds IMO.

 

Pretty much covered it there.

every now and again governments will step out of bounds to send out the message...."do what we fucking say, we are above the law."
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Eventually standing around outside waiting for them to give up starts to look silly - especially with the press asking you what are you going to do

 

and if you train people to shoot and kill others then that's what they want to do - see that poor copper in Manchester who was shot in an exercise by his mate

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