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There seemed to be more potential in that toilet thing than the gave the bloke credit for. I don't know too much about it, but it would seem that if they went to the government, who are in the midst of creating thousands and thousands of homes in the South-East, they could get them to implement them as standard in those homes, thus saving money and water (it might piss off certain water companies, but fuck 'em...). Thinking more internationally I could see use for it from Greece to Kenya.

 

Would anyone know about this, and am I talking bollocks?

 

I was also pissed off on that final bloke's behalf - the fact that it didn't seem to bother/notice(?) that he'd given away an extra 5% pissed me off even further...

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Guest bobbyshinton

There seemed to be more potential in that toilet thing than the gave the bloke credit for. I don't know too much about it, but it would seem that if they went to the government, who are in the midst of creating thousands and thousands of homes in the South-East, they could get them to implement them as standard in those homes, thus saving money and water (it might piss off certain water companies, but fuck 'em...). Thinking more internationally I could see use for it from Greece to Kenya.

 

Would anyone know about this, and am I talking bollocks?

 

I was also pissed off on that final bloke's behalf - the fact that it didn't seem to bother/notice(?) that he'd given away an extra 5% pissed me off even further...

 

 

I thought that was too obvious, everyone in woor hoose came up with a similar suggestion / idea.  How come the dragons did not see it?

 

 

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I thought that was too obvious, everyone in woor hoose came up with a similar suggestion / idea.  How come the dragons did not see it?

 

Blind to engineering. If its not stylised and aimed at the 18-30 market, they don't get it...

 

They also often think they're worth more than they truly are. That guy with the bottle stacker was not "bloody mad" for not giving away half his company. It was a risk, sure, but he'd gotten far enough on his own, and the TV appearance would've done him good, too.

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There seemed to be more potential in that toilet thing than the gave the bloke credit for. I don't know too much about it, but it would seem that if they went to the government, who are in the midst of creating thousands and thousands of homes in the South-East, they could get them to implement them as standard in those homes, thus saving money and water (it might piss off certain water companies, but fuck 'em...). Thinking more internationally I could see use for it from Greece to Kenya.

 

Would anyone know about this, and am I talking bollocks?

 

I was also pissed off on that final bloke's behalf - the fact that it didn't seem to bother/notice(?) that he'd given away an extra 5% pissed me off even further...

 

I didn't understand why water companies wouldn't be interested, on the programme they were saying that water companies make more money the more water people use, as far as I understand it, the exact opposite is true. Unless someone has a water meter, and hardly anyone does, then don't you pay a set amount dependent upon the size of your house etc? If I'm right then the water companies profits would go up, not down, if people used less water. I don't understand why they wouldn't be interested.

 

Also, the market for something like this in developing countries where water is scarce would be massive.

 

Personally, I think the dragons were scared off by the bloke, rather than his invention, he did come over as a bit aggressive, if I were him I'd go to someone like Oxfam and try and get my product included in all the charities' catalogues.

 

 

The other guy who gave away 5% more of his company made the right decision. Having 70% of a massive, profitable company is always better than 100% of a small debt ridden one. What he's bought himself with that extra 5% is guaranteed success, can you imagine the dragon's letting that company fail once their money is invested in it?? Neither can I!! Also, the woman dragon's contacts would have paid for the extra 5% even before Christmas.

 

I never understand why so many people turn the dragon's down just because they want a higher equity stake, don't they understand the bigger the stake, the more commited the dragon, the more time and expertise they'll put in, the less likely to fail and more likely to succeed? With something like 70-90% of new businesses failing in their first year, you'd think people would want the security of having one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the country as a partner.

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Guest bobbyshinton

There seemed to be more potential in that toilet thing than the gave the bloke credit for. I don't know too much about it, but it would seem that if they went to the government, who are in the midst of creating thousands and thousands of homes in the South-East, they could get them to implement them as standard in those homes, thus saving money and water (it might piss off certain water companies, but fuck 'em...). Thinking more internationally I could see use for it from Greece to Kenya.

 

Would anyone know about this, and am I talking bollocks?

 

I was also pissed off on that final bloke's behalf - the fact that it didn't seem to bother/notice(?) that he'd given away an extra 5% pissed me off even further...

 

I didn't understand why water companies wouldn't be interested, on the programme they were saying that water companies make more money the more water people use, as far as I understand it, the exact opposite is true. Unless someone has a water meter, and hardly anyone does, then don't you pay a set amount dependent upon the size of your house etc? If I'm right then the water companies profits would go up, not down, if people used less water. I don't understand why they wouldn't be interested.

 

Also, the market for something like this in developing countries where water is scarce would be massive.

 

Personally, I think the dragons were scared off by the bloke, rather than his invention, he did come over as a bit aggressive, if I were him I'd go to someone like Oxfam and try and get my product included in all the charities' catalogues.

 

 

The other guy who gave away 5% more of his company made the right decision. Having 70% of a massive, profitable company is always better than 100% of a small debt ridden one. What he's bought himself with that extra 5% is guaranteed success, can you imagine the dragon's letting that company fail once their money is invested in it?? Neither can I!! Also, the woman dragon's contacts would have paid for the extra 5% even before Christmas.

 

I never understand why so many people turn the dragon's down just because they want a higher equity stake, don't they understand the bigger the stake, the more commited the dragon, the more time and expertise they'll put in, the less likely to fail and more likely to succeed? With something like 70-90% of new businesses failing in their first year, you'd think people would want the security of having one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the country as a partner.

 

We had a bloke who we believed would be good to invest in, he wanted 75k, we asked for 50% equity.  He refused, so we did not invest.  At this moment he is struggling (looks doomed) without being arrogant with us on board he would now be in a far better position.  It is not just the money, so yes a lot of the times they should welcome the dragons even on more equity

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Also, the woman dragon's contacts would have paid for the extra 5% even before Christmas.

 

I never understand why so many people turn the dragon's down just because they want a higher equity stake, don't they understand the bigger the stake, the more commited the dragon, the more time and expertise they'll put in, the less likely to fail and more likely to succeed? With something like 70-90% of new businesses failing in their first year, you'd think people would want the security of having one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the country as a partner.

 

Not sure about 'most successful entrepreneurs in the country', 'that womans' company is on the bones of its arse bluelaugh.gif

 

With Theo he was only going to  sell through Partners. with her he has distribution all over the shop (check Kelkoo for it).  It's not going to be the next Rubik Cube but he made the right choice.

 

The Dragons all want to be Simon Cowell now.  More interested in being funny ("Why would I want to look at my shit?" bluelaugh.gif) than make a good deal.  That water saving device was brilliant (even if most bogs come with half and full flush now anyway), the bloke that made it was a cunt.

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The guy with the water saving device had a good idea but looked like he didn't have a clue about business, his comment about money being evil was idiotic to make in front of a group of investors.

 

The thing most of the people pitching their ideas forget is that they're not just getting the money, they're also getting the experience and connections of the dragons, money can't buy that sort of help. Though in saying that its a big step giving away 30-50% of an idea which you've worked hard for years to get off the ground.

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Guest bobbyshinton

Not sure about 'most successful entrepreneurs in the country', 'that womans' company is on the bones of its arse

 

 

I was wondering how her suppliers feel seeing her on TV, when I should imagine (alledgedly) she left some debts when she went pop.

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It was very good.  Although I had to turn off when the lad came on with his internet blender, it was just too painful to watch.  Agree with most of you that the Toilet thing was a good idea.

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The other guy who gave away 5% more of his company made the right decision. Having 70% of a massive, profitable company is always better than 100% of a small debt ridden one. What he's bought himself with that extra 5% is guaranteed success, can you imagine the dragon's letting that company fail once their money is invested in it?? Neither can I!! Also, the woman dragon's contacts would have paid for the extra 5% even before Christmas.

 

I never understand why so many people turn the dragon's down just because they want a higher equity stake, don't they understand the bigger the stake, the more commited the dragon, the more time and expertise they'll put in, the less likely to fail and more likely to succeed? With something like 70-90% of new businesses failing in their first year, you'd think people would want the security of having one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the country as a partner.

 

Its not the decision to go into business with either/both of them, its the way Theo changed his offer and whacked it up another 5%. He was just making the play and the guy just gave him it. Worse was the way he actually considered giving away 35% of the rest of his life to that Peter bloke. I would've diplomatically told him to stick his offer up his arse.

 

The guy with the water saving device had a good idea but looked like he didn't have a clue about business, his comment about money being evil was idiotic to make in front of a group of investors.

 

The thing most of the people pitching their ideas forget is that they're not just getting the money, they're also getting the experience and connections of the dragons, money can't buy that sort of help. Though in saying that its a big step giving away 30-50% of an idea which you've worked hard for years to get off the ground.

 

Agreed. It would have to have been an Inventor-Busniessman relationship. But they still should've seen through his character to the potential of the device.

 

Finally, I think they were mad for not giving the foldable cups (etc.) bloke more credit. OK... 20 million units is optimistic, but they've under-estimated the travelling market (the thing should sell large amounts from the USA, to Germany, to Japan), and I could even see it becoming something for people who aren't moving. It could be sold to dorty student-types... Even as Ikea objet d'art...

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Guest Alan Shearer 9

good show, but I was reading an article about it in some paper and of the actual people they do do deals with, hardly any of their ideas become successful, in fact they haven't had one really successful thing out of it yet.

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Its not the decision to go into business with either/both of them, (1) its the way Theo changed his offer and whacked it up another 5%. He was just making the play and the guy just gave him it. (2) Worse was the way he actually considered giving away 35% of the rest of his life to that Peter bloke. I would've diplomatically told him to stick his offer up his arse.

 

Agreed. It would have to have been an Inventor-Busniessman relationship. But they still should've seen through his character to the potential of the device.

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(3) Agreed. It would have to have been an Inventor-Busniessman relationship. But they still should've seen through his character to the potential of the device.

 

 

(1) Yeah he was being a bit of a twat by doing that.

 

(2) I'd have considered it, not at that percentage and that amount of investment, but if he'd have given him a decent offer. It would mean he didn't have to worry about things like paying his bills etc, he could just concentrate on coming up with new ideas and get some staff in to do the stuff he didn't want to do, or wasn't very good at.

 

(3) I wouldn't have wanted to go into business with that bloke. The only way I'd get involved with him would be in some kind of proprietary agreement. ie I'd buy his idea off him and pay him commission, but not allow him any input into production/marketing/management of the business etc.

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Finally, I think they were mad for not giving the foldable cups (etc.) bloke more credit. OK... 20 million units is optimistic, but they've under-estimated the travelling market (the thing should sell large amounts from the USA, to Germany, to Japan), and I could even see it becoming something for people who aren't moving. It could be sold to dorty student-types... Even as Ikea objet d'art...

 

I forgot about that guy, Paphitis was a knob for not telling him that he was good mates with Bernstein who owns a chain of outdoor shops, had he mentioned that I'm guessing things would've been different as he would have had an opportunity to get a foot in the the door of the UK market.

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(2) I'd have considered it, not at that percentage and that amount of investment, but if he'd have given him a decent offer. It would mean he didn't have to worry about things like paying his bills etc, he could just concentrate on coming up with new ideas and get some staff in to do the stuff he didn't want to do, or wasn't very good at.

 

(3) I wouldn't have wanted to go into business with that bloke. The only way I'd get involved with him would be in some kind of proprietary agreement. ie I'd buy his idea off him and pay him commission, but not allow him any input into production/marketing/management of the business etc.

 

(2) The thing is, I would put my house on Peter Jones never entering into some form of patron relationship. Owning 35% of "Bloke ltd.", he would not be the sort to allow the guy's creative juices to flow, but would instead squeeze quick and hard - and if he wasn't up to the required standard, he'd set about taking the bloke's name. Quite simply, those two people and that product would not've worked, to my mind.

 

(3) Aye, that's what I meant by by an Inventor-Businessman relationship :D He would simply have had to have been taken out of the equation (and I suspect he would've been receptive to that if he'd been handled correctly - and as we saw, there was a major culture-clash, instead) whilst the investor(s) handled the implementation.

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(2) The thing is, I would put my house on Peter Jones never entering into some form of patron relationship. Owning 35% of "Bloke ltd.", he would not be the sort to allow the guy's creative juices to flow, but would instead squeeze quick and hard - and if he wasn't up to the required standard, he'd set about taking the bloke's name. Quite simply, those two people and that product would not've worked, to my mind.

 

 

But the thing about that bloke was that his talent was for letting the creative juices flow. That's what PJ wanted to invest in, the geezer, not any specific idea. In order for that to work he have to be left to be creative and without his creativity his name is worthless.

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Brilliant programme, something different for a change. 

 

Panel are right tossers though, money clearly gone to their heads.  Like someone said if it's not marketed for 18-30 year olds, they're just not into it. 

 

I think the main problem with the toilet saver thing, Inter flush, I think, was that they viewed the guy as aggressive, which he was.  Only shot himself in the foot with his little "money is what's ruining the world" rant. 

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But the thing about that bloke was that his talent was for letting the creative juices flow. That's what PJ wanted to invest in, the geezer, not any specific idea. In order for that to work he have to be left to be creative and without his creativity his name is worthless.

 

I honestly don't think he saw the deal he proposed in that way. If he did, it would be another matter, but if I'm correct, thats sort of my point. Pressured for productivity, the guy would clam up. If the guy hadn't come up with something new in, say, 6 years' time, and was wanting to cat-hunt in Bodmin, I think "issues" would arise.

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Possibly, but all he would be able to do would be sell his stake, he'd still be a minority shareholder and therefore the bloke could out vote him and stop him doing anything he didn't like.

 

Moral pressure and stress :D

 

this programme was on about a year ago wasn't it? do they show you what's happening to the businesses showed in the 1st series?

 

When they repeated the first series, recently, I was really hoping they'd tell us what had happened to them, but no luck... I heard about that Wonderland magazine getting launched, don't know how it did, though. Those foldable plastic cups/plates/etc. have been sighted in Millets, too.

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