Kaizero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 CL is nowhere near eclipsing the WC in importance in any other way than big clubs getting money from it and not from the WC. It's the biggest club football tournament, but the WC is the biggest football tournament. 109 million watched the 2009 CL finale. 700 million watched the 2010 WC finale. On topic though, Messi is no doubt up there. But as mentioned before, he'll probably not go into history Maradona/Pele style before he's performed at a WC, no matter if it's "right" or "wrong". It's pretty much the difference twenty years in the future between "Messi was a great player on one of the greatest Barcelona incarnations in history" and "Messi was a great player and was a major part in bringing the World Cup to Argentina as well as being a major player in one of the greatest Barcelona incarnations in history." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 My top 3: 1. Zidane 2. Ronaldo, the poster 3. Messi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest benarfaNUFC Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Maradona= messi + xavi + iniesta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Lead Argentina to the WC and he's the greatest to me. That's just how it is. He's been better for Barca than Zidane was for Madrid or Juventus. However Zidane as a WC winners medal, 2 finals appearances and 3 finals goals. To me, that cements Zidane for me over Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridman Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm not sure really, I think he needs to win a world cup before he will be considered up there with most of those. Might have to move away from spain too, those greats often showed there class in more that 1 league... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 messi is a funny one for me, stats-wise he's already up there with the greats but as has been mentioned he doesn't always seem to have that quality to drag his team through a game single handed, to dominate games when everyone around him is not playing perhaps this is the thing, playing for barca he never HAS to do that 'cause how often to xavi/iniesta/villa/alves all have off days? argentina is the thing, i think if they get a good, competent manager for a fucking change and build their approach around using messi in the right way then i think it'll end up being a moot argument Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 What about Cristiano Ronaldo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 to be fair he carries the weight of his own ego every game, which is probably something that should be considered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayno Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 God imagine team with Ronaldo and Messi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 ronaldo would make it all about ronaldo, probably stand with hands on hips while barca pass the ball to each other and score great team goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Lead Argentina to the WC and he's the greatest to me. That's just how it is. He's been better for Barca than Zidane was for Madrid or Juventus. However Zidane as a WC winners medal, 2 finals appearances and 3 finals goals. To me, that cements Zidane for me over Messi. That, right there, demonstrates why "must win the World Cup" is a falacious argument for determining the "best player". You're saying that over the course of hundreds of club games Messi is the better player, but over less than a dozen Zidane was better, and therefore Zidane is better overall. It doesn't wash for me. Oh, and as for the "has to leave Barca" line - wasn't all of Pele's (noteworthy) football played in one country? (And don't give me that NASL bullshit either...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 If the WC is a barometer to greatness then Klose is one of the greatest number 9s ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 isn't it supposed to be more about how these greats won the world cup "almost single-handedly" (especially in the case of maradona and slightly less so zidane) this is why the world cup is talked about in this discussion, not just the fact they hold a medal for being there al a (fat) ronaldo circa 1994 iirc, but fat ronaldo circa 2002 basically won them that world cup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 If the WC is a barometer to greatness then Klose is one of the greatest number 9s ever. While Cruyff, Eusebio and Best wouldn't even be on the list... (Although why Best is on there I don't know. Some kind of George/Leon joke?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Lead Argentina to the WC and he's the greatest to me. That's just how it is. He's been better for Barca than Zidane was for Madrid or Juventus. However Zidane as a WC winners medal, 2 finals appearances and 3 finals goals. To me, that cements Zidane for me over Messi. That, right there, demonstrates why "must win the World Cup" is a falacious argument for determining the "best player". You're saying that over the course of hundreds of club games Messi is the better player, but over less than a dozen Zidane was better, and therefore Zidane is better overall. It doesn't wash for me. Oh, and as for the "has to leave Barca" line - wasn't all of Pele's (noteworthy) football played in one country? (And don't give me that NASL bullshit either...) For arguments sake Brazil didn't even have a proper national league until after he retired IIRC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 For someone to score nearly 100 goals in 2 seasons is absolutely phenomenal. In my opinion he is definitely the best player in the world right now and maybe has been the best player in the world but I'm not sure about saying he's one of the all time greats, if this conversation is still going in 4-5 years time then I would believe he is as he is still only 23 years old so he's still young. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Great player with more to come but hasn't eclipsed Maradona yet as even Argentina's greatest.When he wins a World Cup and/or leagues with different clubs then he can be looked at differently imo. He's one special talent though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'd say he and Zidane are the two greatest players I've seen in my lifetime (I'm 21). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Great player with more to come but hasn't eclipsed Maradona yet as even Argentina's greatest.When he wins a World Cup and/or leagues with different clubs then he can be looked at differently imo. He's one special talent though. This, still needs to win the WC, don't care how you guys feel about it, but in Argentina and rest of the World, World Cup is the biggest achievement and until he's won it or anything major with the national team he won't be even considered for the greatest of all time. Doubt he'll pass Maradona, but will most probably be the best player of this generation when he retires. Zidane & Ronaldo last generation Messi this generation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm not sure really, I think he needs to win a world cup before he will be considered up there with most of those. Might have to move away from spain too, those greats often showed there class in more that 1 league... Watcha laughing at psyduck? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Messi is second, by default, because Bale is always Number 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! ...in da best league in da world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! Football was only invented in 1992, so who is this Pele and what is a Cruyff? Isn't Maradona that crazy coke-head? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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