Football greats - where do Barcelona (2011) rank?

[alpal78]

Both just as bad as each other. For an Alves there is a Di Maria, for a Busquets a Pepe, Pedro a CR7, not to mention Ramos, Mascherano and the rest

 

Disagree, there is a difference. Players like Maria and Marcelo for Madrid do dive but they don't roll around the floor trying to get the opponent sent off. Example when De Maria dived against Alves, he was frustrated and held his hands up but he wasn't clutching his face like Pedro did or his knees like Alves did. Cheating nevertheless but different degrees.

 

 

Christ what a load of s***.

 

Yes, you're right.  After Madrid players dive they immediately get up and tell the ref not to give a free kick and they'll never do it again.

 

Di Maria showed 3 fingers to the ref when he went down, indicating how many times Alves had 'fouled' him, which got Alves booked.

 

And if you can't see the difference between showing 3 fingers to the ref indicating number of fouls, (which many players do by the way) and holding your face pretending to have received a blow when there was absolutely no contact and rolling around on the floor, then I'd afraid you're the one who is full of shit or maybe piss. 

[Mr. Snrub]

Worthy of a booking, not diving.

 

Not the point I'm making anyway, trying to claim one teams method of diving isn't as bad as anothers and trying to get some moral highground over it is just ridiculous.

[Hughesy]

Both just as bad as each other. For an Alves there is a Di Maria, for a Busquets a Pepe, Pedro a CR7, not to mention Ramos, Mascherano and the rest

 

Disagree, there is a difference. Players like Maria and Marcelo for Madrid do dive but they don't roll around the floor trying to get the opponent sent off. Example when De Maria dived against Alves, he was frustrated and held his hands up but he wasn't clutching his face like Pedro did or his knees like Alves did. Cheating nevertheless but different degrees.

 

 

Christ what a load of s***.

 

Yes, you're right.  After Madrid players dive they immediately get up and tell the ref not to give a free kick and they'll never do it again.

 

Di Maria showed 3 fingers to the ref when he went down, indicating how many times Alves had 'fouled' him, which got Alves booked.

 

In fairness, if Alves could tackle as well as he can dive, Di Maria wouldn't need to tell the ref how many times he'd been fouled.

[Village Idiot]

To be frank, I'm on the opinion that if you aren't wearing a captain's armband and you speak to the referee without being asked, you should get a booking. All this methodical pressuring of the refs is a disgrace and they should be protected from it.

[Village Idiot]

Also, I think people tend to overrate the "cleanliness" of past sides. The 2000000000000 cameras we have on pitches now allow to scrutinize modern football far better. Something which should be used to the game's advantage.

[Guest firetotheworks]

They're not as good to watch as the one when they beat Man united in the CL final. They're probably more effective like, but the season isn't over yet.

[Village Idiot]

They're not as good to watch as the one when they beat Man united in the CL final. They're probably more effective like, but the season isn't over yet.

 

The stretch from the first Clásico of the season until January was the best football I have ever seen us play. Wish we could recapture that form but we are obviously tired.

[madras]

To be frank, I'm on the opinion that if you aren't wearing a captain's armband and you speak to the referee without being asked, you should get a booking. All this methodical pressuring of the refs is a disgrace and they should be protected from it.

been saying that for years.

[Zero]

Both just as bad as each other. For an Alves there is a Di Maria, for a Busquets a Pepe, Pedro a CR7, not to mention Ramos, Mascherano and the rest

 

Disagree, there is a difference. Players like Maria and Marcelo for Madrid do dive but they don't roll around the floor trying to get the opponent sent off. Example when De Maria dived against Alves, he was frustrated and held his hands up but he wasn't clutching his face like Pedro did or his knees like Alves did. Cheating nevertheless but different degrees.

 

Barceloa does it on purpose, their cheating is methodological and consist of two steps i) a player not only dives but exaggerates the 'injury' by holding his face (even when there is absolutely no contact) and roll around on the floor as if in terrible pain only to jump up shortly afterwards and ii) 4-5 of the other players consistently surround the ref and scream for him to take action. That's a different level of cheating that very few teams go to.

 

I still think that when given the chance, they play the most beautiful football around but after yesterday's unsportmanlike behaviour, my estimate of this Barcelona team dropped by quite a few notches.

 

Exactly. They did the same for many times already. Remember Motta last year?

[Neil]

They're not as good to watch as the one when they beat Man united in the CL final. They're probably more effective like, but the season isn't over yet.

 

The stretch from the first Clásico of the season until January was the best football I have ever seen us play. Wish we could recapture that form but we are obviously tired.

 

Something gone wrong with the fitness plan? I remember you saying about how your training was designed to help you peak at the end of the season - are injuries and the thinness of the squad playing a bigger part than expected? On the plus side, you have free reign to rotate up until the CL final, what with the league already won. That said, I think Pep will want to play a strong side on Tuesday to try to comprehensively beat Real again.

[Guest north shields lad]

There very possible number one, and in another 2 season could defintly be the number one. If we are talking club sides only, the only 2 that come close were Ajax and Liverpool. Hard to compare them. Barcelona play better football than the great Liverpool sides, but may not be quite as effective. Ajax had both. Hard to cpmpare diffrent generations. One thing is certain, in my lifetime, the 2 best players i ever watched, have both been argies.

[Disco]

To be frank, I'm on the opinion that if you aren't wearing a captain's armband and you speak to the referee without being asked, you should get a booking. All this methodical pressuring of the refs is a disgrace and they should be protected from it.

 

the copa del rey final was a joke. The referee was being surrounded on every decision although he handled it superbly I thought and was probably the nights star performer.

 

[alpal78]

I know many might have read this article on soccernet, but this article captures my view of last night perfectly. Yes Mourinho played defensive football (its the only way to beat Barca) and yes Madrid players were no saints but Barcelona's cheating was of another level and they did not need to resort to such underhanded tactics.

 

As a master of the art of distraction, it must have been particularly galling for Jose Mourinho that a combination of his post-match meltdown and Lionel Messi's masterpiece provided Barcelona with a very convenient diversion in the toxic aftermath of Wednesday's Clasico. It was a night that shamed all parties concerned, of course, but particularly the Catalans.

 

Mourinho's wild-eyed, paranoid outburst served to fill the column inches and dominate the air waves. His conspiracy theory - drawing in UEFA, Barcelona and even UNICEF, perhaps only leaving shape-shifting lizards and the Illuminati free of blame - will surely attract sanctions more severe than Wednesday's night's instruction to sit in a metal cage just metres from his own bench following his sarcastic "well done" to the fourth official. He has already attracted the attention of Barcelona's legal department.

 

But if we can examine the match itself in isolation, and even taking into account that wonderful slaloming run and strike from Messi, strangely this felt like a match that saw Barcelona emerge with even less credit than Real, if searching for credit on such a night is only marginally less onerous than attempting to identify flashing moments of dignity in the career of Katie Price.

 

Given the dramatic denouement, some aspects of this clash have been obscured or misrepresented. Firstly, Real's tactics must be addressed. While criticism of Mourinho's outrageous claims in his press conference are of course justified, condescending interpretations of his approach to the game are more problematic.

 

There is certainly an argument that parking the bus and fielding three defensive midfielders in Xabi Alonso, Lassana Diarra and Pepe was a betrayal of Real's rich history of attacking football, an unforgiveable act of retreat from a club that has spent hundreds of millions to collect some of the best players in the world. But what did Real expect when they hired Jose Mourinho? After all, they must have seen this before.

 

Strangely enough, and going against type, the Portuguese did in fact attempt to release the shackles in the away game at Camp Nou this season and was punished with a 5-0 hammering. Diarra was introduced as a substitute in November as Mourinho acknowledged his mistake, but it was too late for his side to be spared an evisceration of epic proportions. Quite simply, Mourinho could not let that happen again, and though a 1-1 home draw in the league ceded any final chance of winning the Primera Division, Real looked far more durable and applied that conservative approach again to win the Copa del Rey. Quite rightly, they did so again on Wednesday.

 

Criticism for failing to start a conventional striker on Wednesday night was also wide of the mark. Barcelona did not have one either, with David Villa operating in wide positions and Messi, nominally the central forward, dropping deep with regularity. Instead, Real were set up to nullify Xavi and Messi and counter-attack, and though critics cry that they ceded 77% possession at home, that is fast becoming a meaningless statistic when it comes to Barcelona. It is akin to stating that Rory Delap will launch a long throw; Barcelona will dominate possession in any game they play.

 

It may be unpalatable for Madrid fans to digest, but in the context of the tie and the undoubted brilliance of Barcelona, playing for a 0-0 draw at home and then hoping to snatch an away goal in Catalunya was Real's best approach. Unpalatable, yes, a possible renunciation of Real's history, yes, but it was a legitimate tactic. As Mourinho himself said: "We had the intention to keep the game at 0-0, then bring on a striker, then a third phase with a No. 10 behind three forwards. But the ref didn't allow it".

 

Mourinho was of course referring to the decision to dismiss Pepe. Until that point, Real's restrictive approach had ensured the match was panning out as their coach had hoped, but shorn of their defender-cum-midfield-enforcer, Real were powerless to suppress Xavi and Messi, who stamped his mark on this game in unforgettable fashion, scoring his 51st and 52nd goals of the season. At 23, he is Barcelona's third all-time leading goalscorer, a phenomenon, a marvel.

 

But Pepe's key dismissal feeds into the second key debate: Barcelona's behaviour. Though the Portugal international's boot was high, it certainly felt as though his dismissal had as much to do with Dani Alves' exaggerated reaction and the hounding of the referee by Barcelona players as it did the challenge itself. A yellow card would have sufficed, but Alves ensured Real, and a Mourinho team, would yet again lose a player in a match against Barcelona. His brief departure on a stretcher only added to his dramatic performance.

 

In this, though, Alves was far from alone. Pedro and, unsurprisingly, Sergio Busquets, were guilty of the most rank and reprehensible play-acting seen in some time. Real are far from innocent on this front of course, but seeing players of the quality and ability of the two World Cup winners indulge in the dark arts was painful. Perhaps it is the knowledge that Barcelona do not need to stoop to such depths that made it hurt so much; their ability alone is enough to ensure their superiority, and certainly over two legs.

 

Either way it was an unedifying spectacle, particularly from a club that prides itself on doing things the right way. More than a club? Pedro, Alves and Busquets seemed intent on convincing the referee that Madrid's challenges were more than a tackle, more than an assault even.

 

Real were guilty to a lesser degree, but it was Barcelona who surrendered their hard-won moral high ground with their histrionics. We can expect some devilish behaviour from Real Madrid, managed by Mourinho and containing Pepe, but it is becoming an ever more evident part of Barca's approach as well. If Real were said to have abandoned their principles by adopting an oppressive yet legitimate defensive strategy, then what of Barcelona and their behaviour?

 

Few would cite Emmanuel Adebayor as a paragon of virtue or the yardstick by which modern footballers should be judged, but his post-match comments, while exaggerated, still ring true.

 

"Whenever you play against Barca, whenever you touch them they are on the floor crying like a baby," he said. "Everyone talks about Barcelona and their fair play but I think they are very far away from fair play. Whenever you make contact when going for a one-on-one or 50-50 ball they are on the floor crying, putting their hand up near their face. Their manager, fans and the players on the bench are always crying. Barcelona is a fantastic club, has fantastic players, but they have to stop that."

 

On Thursday morning, Barcelona's carefully crafted, shiny image looks a little duller than usual.

[RupertCommunicator]

Shalke should be given a bye to play Man Ure in the final in place of this pair of disgusting excuses for a team.

 

What an anti-advert for Spanish football last night was.  If this is their Old Firm, then what is there to like about La Liga?

 

Boring football, diving, whinging, handbags, moaning managers, seriously.  Just play some sodding football.

[Beren]

Good, fair article posted by alpal.

 

Only disagree about Barca not needing to cheat to win. Don't think it's that cut and dry IMO.

[johnnypd]

Good, fair article posted by alpal.

 

Only disagree about Barca not needing to cheat to win. Don't think it's that cut and dry IMO.

 

they shouldn't need to, not to that level. they're the best team i've seen in my lifetime, but also arguably the biggest bunch of cheats in the same time. very disappointing.

[Guest Mantis]

They will be remembered for being the team Messi played for and for being one of the most talented teams around who still needed to compete with Madrid for the title of biggest bunch of cheating diving nancy boys the game has ever seen.  I cant stand Man U, but I hope the CL is won by a team with some balls and who can stay on their feet when the wind blows.

[Village Idiot]

They're not as good to watch as the one when they beat Man united in the CL final. They're probably more effective like, but the season isn't over yet.

 

The stretch from the first Clásico of the season until January was the best football I have ever seen us play. Wish we could recapture that form but we are obviously tired.

 

Something gone wrong with the fitness plan? I remember you saying about how your training was designed to help you peak at the end of the season - are injuries and the thinness of the squad playing a bigger part than expected? On the plus side, you have free reign to rotate up until the CL final, what with the league already won. That said, I think Pep will want to play a strong side on Tuesday to try to comprehensively beat Real again.

 

I suppose the WC has weighed down on the players' shoulders more than was expected. Also injuries (particularly in defence) have pretty much removed our ability to rotate.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

And you never rotate against Real Madrid.

[midds]

Got to be right up there. 

 

They look just about unbeatable when it comes down to brass tacks.

[Mick]

Can anybody name a better club team?  I can't think of any that I've seen.

[Tooj]

Can anybody name a better club team?  I can't think of any that I've seen.

 

They were just before my time, but out of club sides of the last 30 years, I would image the Milan team of the Van Basten, Rijkaard and Gullit era would have gave them a hell of a game.

[Keefaz]

Our Championship winning side would've hurt 'em. Carroll would facebum 'em, tbh.

[ponsaelius]

The worrying thing is if they add depth over the summer. It's their only weakness.

[Ketsbaia]

Simply put, they're the best ever. We'll not see anybody like them for a long, long time.

[Guest firetotheworks]

They made Man United look like a mid-table team playing against Man United. I've really enjoyed watching the opposition when Barca have had the ball recently. It's amazing to watch them do nothing wrong defensively, tick every box and still get split apart.