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Nationalism


Mr Logic
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Do you identify yourself with your country?

 

Are you proud to be [insert generic collective noun here]?

 

If someone insults your country do you get upset?

 

Do patriotic speeches find you standing up and shouting "Hell yeah!" or some such?

 

I can safelty answer no to all of the above. Just the other day I had to fill out a form that wanted to know my ethnicity (which is not quite the same but certainly related) and I drew a line through all the options and wrote ' Human-being .. Planet Earth.

 

What's your take on it? Am particularly interested in American responses as I understand a lot of you were sent through school having to pay homage to the flag?

 

But what is nationalistic fervour at the end of the day? You never asked to be born there any more than anyone born anywhere did. I see it creating division and tension, I see it as narrow-minded and ignorant if I am honest.

 

The inherent systems of each nation tend to promulgate patriotism as a natural extension of living there. Is that what brainwashed you or can you see through that shit?

 

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Over the last 10 years I've done the whole range of nationalism, used to be fiercely pro-English/British, but the more I grow up, the more I get to know people and other cultures, it just made me notice how narrow-minded I was.  Nationalism in anything other than sport, should be discouraged from a very young age.  Maybe we'd all learn to get along with different races and creeds if we weren't so needlessly defensive about a lump of rock that we live on, that sits on a larger lump of rock, spinning around a massive lightbulb. 

 

Doug sums up my thoughts on the general populace quite well in this:

 

 

Bit long, he's on Alex Jones' show, but still a good listen.  Stanhope is sadly spot on.  It's partly why I don't feel part of this country any more, because fuck sticking up for some of moronic shite we have residing on our own little rock under the banner of nationalism.

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Do you identify yourself with your country? Some parts yes but having grown up here it's inevitable.

 

Are you proud to be [insert generic collective noun here]? Occasionally, Olympics for e.g.

 

If someone insults your country do you get upset? Not in the slightest.

 

Do patriotic speeches find you standing up and shouting "Hell yeah!" or some such? I'd mock anyone that did.

 

Nationalism as a rule of thumb does more good than bad though. Hardly insightful stuff from me.

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I'm extremely proud to be British because taking everything into account I believe it is the best country in the world. It's by no means perfect of course, I would never argue that and don't really think it's possible anyway. I can appreciate and respect perfectly well the better bits of other nations, of which there are many.

 

To address Bluf's point, one of the things I'm most proud of is the fact that we can and do get along with other races and ideas better than virtually anyone else. There are a lot of mongs around - though again, I'm unconvinced that there are any more than anywhere else - but we have by and large embraced massive change and evolution of society and as a result people of all backgrounds, religions and sexual preference want to be here. That's something that the morons fail to get; immigrants all want to come here BECAUSE it's so progressive and fair.

 

I'm going to bow out of this now, because I'm not sure my opinion will go down too well. For all of the above, the country is an absolute expert at beating itself up without taking into account the plight of the vast majority of the rest of the world.

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Dave - I think they want to come here for the National Health service and welfare state-

 

Yep, our world class healthcare system and welfare state that takes care of many of the most empoverished people who live here. Perhaps it would be better if we had a wank healthcare system and allowed more people to starve, struggle and die on the streets. Then people wouldn't want to come here.

 

Anyway, I've said my bit. Definitely out this time. :lol:

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Dave - I think they want to come here for the National Health service and welfare state-

 

Yep, our world class healthcare system and welfare state that takes care of many of the most empoverished people who live here. Perhaps it would be better if we had a wank healthcare system and allowed more people to starve, struggle and die on the streets. Then people wouldn't want to come here.

 

Definitely out this time. :lol:

 

I never hinted at that- the national health service and welfare safety net are what make this the best country to live in - yes.

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Dave - I think they want to come here for the National Health service and welfare state-

 

:lol: Well they're in for nasty shock when they find out what this Government's doing to all that just now. [/sarcasm]

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Dave - I think they want to come here for the National Health service and welfare state-

 

:lol: Well they're in for nasty shock when they find out what this Government's doing to all that just now. [/sarcasm]

 

cut backs- and expected increase in imigration in next couple of years- champion.

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I can safelty answer no to all of the above. Just the other day I had to fill out a form that wanted to know my ethnicity (which is not quite the same but certainly related) and I drew a line through all the options and wrote ' Human-being .. Planet Earth.

 

You don't identify yourself with any larger grouping of people? I would say that is quite unique to you. It is natural for humans to divide themselves into various groups based on cultural and historical factors.

 

No matter where life takes me or what I do, I will always have my name and I will always have my home. I can trace my father's entire lineage to two small villages and most of mother's to another and spent the majority of my childhood in one major city. I will always represent and have pride in whatever distinction these places have because they are part of me.

 

My country as an entity, I have little feeling for. It is a failed state. The ambitious leave (or at least travel) because it is hard to better yourself in that environment. The poor leave because they are suffering. My country is simply a geographical boundary created by Britain with no true meaning.

The connection between the different groups is more a marriage of convenience than actual feeling and brotherhood.

 

As a whole though, nationalism (as long as it is not blind) is a positive thing, imo.

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Do you identify yourself with your country? Yes. I live in a country other than the one I was born in, it's fairly hard to not identify myself as being from England

 

Are you proud to be [insert generic collective noun here]? Yeah I'm proud enough. I'm more proud of my area within England than I am of England itself. I appreciate the personality traits of people born in England.

 

If someone insults your country do you get upset?Depends what they're saying.. possibly.

 

Do patriotic speeches find you standing up and shouting "Hell yeah!" or some such? No not really. Though during the few BIG BRITISH EVENTS that have happened, there have moments that have made me smile

 

I can safelty answer no to all of the above. Just the other day I had to fill out a form that wanted to know my ethnicity (which is not quite the same but certainly related) and I drew a line through all the options and wrote ' Human-being .. Planet Earth. No matter what you believe, all you've achieved here is being a pain in the arse for the poor minimum wage monkey who has to deal with your annoying-as-shit response.

 

But what is nationalistic fervour at the end of the day? You never asked to be born there any more than anyone born anywhere did. I see it creating division and tension, I see it as narrow-minded and ignorant if I am honest.It doesn't matter if you asked to be born a certain place, that place is a major major part of your personality. A large percentage of your cultural norms/values will come from that place. And if they don't, it's probably because being born in that place has given you the education, so you know you can look further afield and grow to appreciate other cultures

 

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I think a healthy nationalism can be good... pride in your own roots helps you to understand other people better. The problem is when you start to believe that your culture is the correct one.

 

Great Britain I have some good feelings for, modern Britain in particular. But I do feel a sense of shame for how we fucked up a lot of the world in the past.

 

The only time I understood nationalism of the George W Bush variety was after 9/11. When Bush was giving his first few speeches I desperately wanted the US to go and fuck some people up in revenge, I didn't really care who. I just felt a fundamental attack on my way of life, when I hadn't even identified with that same way of life before. That was a very unusual feeling for me as a general lefty.

 

Overall I wish people would have healthy nationalism but without a strong preference for their own national interests. For me it doesn't matter if we make decisions that benefit people in Britain if they disadvantage people in Greece, or Iraq, or wherever. It seems a stupid concept to hold your own people as better or more valuable in some way.

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Do you identify yourself with your country? Yes. I live in a country other than the one I was born in, it's fairly hard to not identify myself as being from England

 

Are you proud to be [insert generic collective noun here]? Yeah I'm proud enough. I'm more proud of my area within England than I am of England itself. I appreciate the personality traits of people born in England.

 

If someone insults your country do you get upset?Depends what they're saying.. possibly.

 

Do patriotic speeches find you standing up and shouting "Hell yeah!" or some such? No not really. Though during the few BIG BRITISH EVENTS that have happened, there have moments that have made me smile

 

I can safelty answer no to all of the above. Just the other day I had to fill out a form that wanted to know my ethnicity (which is not quite the same but certainly related) and I drew a line through all the options and wrote ' Human-being .. Planet Earth. No matter what you believe, all you've achieved here is being a pain in the arse for the poor minimum wage monkey who has to deal with your annoying-as-shit response.

 

But what is nationalistic fervour at the end of the day? You never asked to be born there any more than anyone born anywhere did. I see it creating division and tension, I see it as narrow-minded and ignorant if I am honest.It doesn't matter if you asked to be born a certain place, that place is a major major part of your personality. A large percentage of your cultural norms/values will come from that place. And if they don't, it's probably because being born in that place has given you the education, so you know you can look further afield and grow to appreciate other cultures

 

 

This is a very good post. Change "England" to "U.S." and you've got my feelings almost exactly.

 

It's also important to differentiate between "nationalism" and "patriotism." Two distinct concepts, imo. I consider myself patriotic, but not nationalist.

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I consider myself patriotic, but not nationalist.

 

 

ORLY?

http://quotespictures.net/quotes-pictures-pics/2012/09/quot-patriotism-is-the-last-refuge-of-a-scoundrel-quot-samuel-johnson.jpg

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Do you identify yourself with your country? not really

 

Are you proud to be [insert generic collective noun here]? not really

 

If someone insults your country do you get upset? only if what they are saying isn't true

 

Do patriotic speeches find you standing up and shouting "Hell yeah!" or some such? nope, find them embarrassing

 

I can safelty answer no to all of the above. Just the other day I had to fill out a form that wanted to know my ethnicity (which is not quite the same but certainly related) and I drew a line through all the options and wrote ' Human-being .. Planet Earth.

 

What's your take on it? Am particularly interested in American responses as I understand a lot of you were sent through school having to pay homage to the flag?

 

But what is nationalistic fervour at the end of the day? You never asked to be born there any more than anyone born anywhere did. I see it creating division and tension, I see it as narrow-minded and ignorant if I am honest.

 

The inherent systems of each nation tend to promulgate patriotism as a natural extension of living there. Is that what brainwashed you or can you see through that s***?

 

 

I feel more geordie/northumbrian than English and I do have emotions around that but not so much that I'd defend its faults.
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I'm generally not that concerned about nationality. I like it here. I'm glad I live here. I don't care to Americanize any other countries. I do get defensive when people assume all Americans share the same views or engage in the same behaviors.

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i'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to nationalism tbh. i've always found it a little bit stupid and archaic, just to have a sense of pride just because your from a particular nation.  Ask me the same question and replace England with Newcastle though and i'd be the complete opposite.

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I'm with Dave here......very proud of my country. Of our history. Of our multi-culture. Of our Welfare State.  Of our National Health Service. Of our contribution to the Arts. Seriously, even though Great Britain refers to the major island of the British Isles, it suits our country because despite some of the cretinous inhabitants, it is great.

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