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Kurt Cobain


Guest Howaythetoon
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Guest Howaythetoon

I fucking love Nirvana and Kurt Cobain and while for years I always thought he simply killed himself, over the last few years as I got more and more into their music and him I'm starting to wonder whether he was topped.

 

http://www.cobaincase.com/

 

Maybe one for Parky but I personally think his whole death is highly suspicious and things just don't quite add up. Either way his death robbed fans and lovers of music in general of someone and something special.

 

Thoughts?

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Guest Howaythetoon

El duce of the Mentors claimed that Courtney Love came to him about killing Kurt.  A week after a big interview where he went into details, he was killed by a train.

 

 

 

Aye, he apparently told Nick Broomfield who the real killer was and at one time was allegedly asked by Love to carry out the killing himself.

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You seen the documentary about this?

 

The one by Nick Broomfield?

 

Aye, that one.

 

Also, not sure if you've read it but the biography by Charles R Cross doesn't focus on whether it was suicide or not but is an utterly beautiful read.

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I have done a lot of reading into this. I think it's a possibility, but to me, In Utero sounds like an extended suicide note in itself.

 

The main thing that makes it sound to me like he was killed was the amount of heroin in his system when he was found. Though it could be argued, after heavy useage, he had developed a tolerance to it higher than a newer user.

 

He was a deeply depressed man. He attempted to kill himself earlier in 1994, he drank a shit load of champagne and took a lot of rohypnol but Courtney found him. 1993 he overdosed on heroin and Courtney resuscitated him.

 

I've listened to their music a lot, and done a lot of reading around the band and read the brilliant book, "Heavier than Heaven." I think he killed himself. He absolutely hated himself for being a drug addict, and felt this terrible sense of unworthiness and hatred that he wasn't a better person for his wife and kids. Courtney wasn't the greatest influence and I don't like her as a person for how she comes across, but I don't think she had him topped. They may have had problems, divorce has been mentioned and she wanted Nirvana to play Lollapalooza for the big pay day which Kurt refused. He hated as well how much the band had changed, he felt they had become too commercial, "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter"s.

 

Michael Stipe said he had been working with Kurt Cobain on taking Nirvana in a new direction, focusing heavily on acoustic work. It's a real shame, after listening and watching to Unplugged, that this wasn't to be.

 

You are right though, the biggest shame is they didn't have that third studio album. He was learning guitar all the time, some of the work on In Utero shows he was growing as a musician. Like Krist said, they were all just learning their trades and having a fantastic time.

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El duce of the Mentors claimed that Courtney Love came to him about killing Kurt.  A week after a big interview where he went into details, he was killed by a train.

 

 

 

I watched a documentary with him in it. Says he was offered £10k. Watching the interview, I wouldn't totally take the man at face value as he had a lot of screws loose and could possibly have been looking for attention.

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Guest Howaythetoon

The reason for the thread btw is basically I'm a huge fan of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain. I've watched, read, listened to and looked at pretty much anything and everything to do with the band and him as a person and I'm positive he did not commit suicide. People mistake his lyrics and drug abuse as someone on the verge of suicide capable of committing suicide but the man was quite false when it come to his persona. He loved his fame, loved his music and more importantly his art and indeed his daughter. He had however fallen out of love with his wife...

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Guest Howaythetoon

You seen the documentary about this?

 

The one by Nick Broomfield?

 

Aye, that one.

 

Also, not sure if you've read it but the biography by Charles R Cross doesn't focus on whether it was suicide or not but is an utterly beautiful read.

 

I have and agree.

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Towards the end, he really began to resent his fame. He wore hunting hats a lot around Seattle to disguise himself although obviously he was quite distinctive to spot. Then he started to dress outrageously, wearing bras for gigs and just generally taking the piss. He was deeply troubled by it all, not being able to take Frances out without attention. "If I went to jail, at least I wouldn't have to sign autographs."

 

Kurt on his lyrics;

 

"Music comes first; lyrics are secondary. Most of my lyrics are contradictions. I'll write a few sincere lines, and then I'll have to make fun of [them]. I don't like to make it too obvious, because if it is too obvious, it gets really stale. You shouldn't be in people's faces 100% all the time. We don't mean to be really cryptic or mysterious, but I just think that lyrics that are different and weird and spacey paint a nice picture. It's just the way I like art."

 

My ex bought me a t-shirt of this picture;

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-Hv1uaqHIFVCI4fnVrQoHsO2OP-6VXH_XJYliC82h3iD4mJBb

 

Probably my favourite item of clothing.

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Guest Howaythetoon

I have done a lot of reading into this. I think it's a possibility, but to me, In Utero sounds like an extended suicide note in itself.

 

The main thing that makes it sound to me like he was killed was the amount of heroin in his system when he was found. Though it could be argued, after heavy useage, he had developed a tolerance to it higher than a newer user.

 

That could well be the case but even then, the levels he apparently injected, would have made it impossible to follow up what he supposedly did.

 

He was a deeply depressed man. He attempted to kill himself earlier in 1994, he drank a s*** load of champagne and took a lot of rohypnol but Courtney found him. 1993 he overdosed on heroin and Courtney resuscitated him.

 

He was drugged. He didn't really drink much less champagne. Even the doctor said he did not look or act like someone who had tried to kill himself. Obviously the conspiracy is that Love tried to kill him but failed. I don't believe he he was deeply depressed either. He had a stomach complaint but some of his closest friends have since revealed that although he was moody he was generally an upbeat person.

 

I've listened to their music a lot, and done a lot of reading around the band and read the brilliant book, "Heavier than Heaven." I think he killed himself. He absolutely hated himself for being a drug addict, and felt this terrible sense of unworthiness and hatred that he wasn't a better person for his wife and kids. Courtney wasn't the greatest influence and I don't like her as a person for how she comes across, but I don't think she had him topped. They may have had problems, divorce has been mentioned and she wanted Nirvana to play Lollapalooza for the big pay day which Kurt refused. He hated as well how much the band had changed, he felt they had become too commercial, "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter"s.

 

I used to take that book at face value but now it for me is basically the words of Love. The book has been rubbished by close friends and family members. He may have portrayed the cool not at ease with fame etc. type persona but all accounts suggest he loved the fame and loved being a huge rock god. He used drugs and abused drugs but again those close to him have since said that he could control it, that he was either a casual user or used it for his stomach complaint. Love on the other hand has always been a serious abuser of drugs.

 

Michael Stipe said he had been working with Kurt Cobain on taking Nirvana in a new direction, focusing heavily on acoustic work. It's a real shame, after listening and watching to Unplugged, that this wasn't to be.

 

You are right though, the biggest shame is they didn't have that third studio album. He was learning guitar all the time, some of the work on In Utero shows he was growing as a musician. Like Krist said, they were all just learning their trades and having a fantastic time.

 

Love REM too.

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Love comes across as an awful person. A band (can't remember the name) covered "Heart Shaped Box" and she took to Twitter to ask why anyone would cover a song wrote about her vagina. To me the song is about women using sex as a weapon and women appearing innocent while doing so. Courtney also bought him a heart shaped box when they first started dating.

 

Love the line "meat eating orchids". :lol:

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Guest Howaythetoon

Towards the end, he really began to resent his fame. He wore hunting hats a lot around Seattle to disguise himself although obviously he was quite distinctive to spot. Then he started to dress outrageously, wearing bras for gigs and just generally taking the p*ss. He was deeply troubled by it all, not being able to take Frances out without attention. "If I went to jail, at least I wouldn't have to sign autographs."

 

Kurt on his lyrics;

 

"Music comes first; lyrics are secondary. Most of my lyrics are contradictions. I'll write a few sincere lines, and then I'll have to make fun of [them]. I don't like to make it too obvious, because if it is too obvious, it gets really stale. You shouldn't be in people's faces 100% all the time. We don't mean to be really cryptic or mysterious, but I just think that lyrics that are different and weird and spacey paint a nice picture. It's just the way I like art."

 

My ex bought me a t-shirt of this picture;

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-Hv1uaqHIFVCI4fnVrQoHsO2OP-6VXH_XJYliC82h3iD4mJBb

 

Probably my favourite item of clothing.

 

To be honest, you could read anything and everything into his lyrics which were more often than not his own mumbo jumbo.

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Like HTT says, Heavier Than Heaven is a wonderful book by an author that I don't necessarily doubt the integrity of but it was a huge deal at the time that a writer had been given access to so much personal stuff by Courtney Love and accordingly you have to take it with a pinch of salt.  You can paint any picture you like if you're a good writer, and he chose the route he was going to take when he talked her into giving so much away.  It paints her in an incredibly good light IIRC, which goes against nearly everything else you hear or read about her.

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Guest Howaythetoon

Love comes across as an awful person. A band (can't remember the name) covered "Heart Shaped Box" and she took to Twitter to ask why anyone would cover a song wrote about her vagina. To me the song is about women using sex as a weapon and women appearing innocent while doing so. Courtney also bought him a heart shaped box when they first started dating.

 

Love the line "meat eating orchids". :lol:

 

She is vile. Almost 50 now or something and still trying to shock people with her awful shock and awe false as fuck vernacular.

 

I strongly believe she had him topped. Even the private detective she hired believes so, a man who could have earned a fortune from her as she was so keen to keep him on the books.

 

Good to learn there are other fans on here btw.

 

 

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