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Certainly no tactical expert but I thought his role was pretty clear (and ineffectual!) last night. When out of possession, press from the front, when in possession, do absolutely nothing but get within ten yards of Grealish to bring him into the centre of the pitch with quick short passes and one-twos. Needless to say, Poland sussed it very early and intricately passing between four defenders never looked like presenting a clear chance. We were fortunate to get on the scoresheet at all last night tbh, doing so only because of Kane's opportunism and a mistake from the keeper. 

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Kane wants to drop deep as well, which is a problem if you're an attacking midfielder who wants to operate in that position.

 

TBH I think the time is coming soon when Kane will have to decide if he wants to be a #10, if so we can play Greenwood or someone like that ahead of him. 

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18 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Kane wants to drop deep as well, which is a problem if you're an attacking midfielder who wants to operate in that position.

 

TBH I think the time is coming soon when Kane will have to decide if he wants to be a #10, if so we can play Greenwood or someone like that ahead of him. 

 

It's a fair shout. Kane does the false 9 thing well because his close control, strength and passing are all really good (though the latter of those attributes was slightly off last night). But him being deep means it's at the expense of a striker being in the box and ready to receive a quick, direct pass.

 

I don't know if the role of the false 9 historically is for him to start passages of play that he then gets on the end of, but that's what it felt like last night. It contributed to our build up play generally being very slow. Kane comes deep, he sprays it wide, tip tap tip tap, Grealish to Mount, Mount to Shaw, Shaw back to Mount, back to Grealish... meanwhile Kane's got all the time in the world to just jog back into a central forward position (which is occupied by defenders who have time to get organised) - as we painstakingly try and wriggle the ball from a wide position into the box to deliver short/low crosses close to goal. If Kane comes deep but there's another CF up there still occupying defenders... things might move quicker. It's no wonder the goal itself came from long range and in the middle of the pitch, cos that was the only place Kane actually got near the ball; certainly not in the box itself. 

 

The comms at one point said that Henderson was coming on - before the goal - and I was pleased about that cos I thought it might at least mean Kane could stay forward a bit more and let Henderson do those 'first passes' from the centre circle. It just generally indicated there'd be a more direct change in tack to this fruitless pass-after-pass-after-pass football in the wide areas. Then we got the goal and abandoned the idea. 

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When I think of the false 9 I imagine it with wide forwards like Neymar to make runs in behind when the striker drops deep. Could possibly do that with people like Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford. But then you’ve got about 10 class attacking midfielders to drop. 
 

Probs not the only way to play it. 

 

 

Edited by AyeDubbleYoo

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England's biggest problem apart from Southgate, is playing with both Rice and Philip instead of just one of them, the lack of a creative midfielder (Bellingham), having Walker as the starting right back and having both Mount and Sterling being completely ineffectual in most matches.

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Yeah the defensive midfielders is a bit naff as they dont offer much going forward, and when they do, they get in the way of the forwards, as said above.

 

Maybe the answer is the Pirlo type of defensive playmaker, someone who only sits deep and looks to 'assist the assist'. I dont think weve got anyone who can do that role as it requires a huge set of skills.

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2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

But him being deep means it's at the expense of a striker being in the box and ready to receive a quick, direct pass.

They were singing Mount's praises, pre-game, as the PL player with the most passes into the box. It's crazy.

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If Kane is to drop deep as a false 9, I’d play DCL up there through the middle right up top and have Grealish and Sterling either side with Rice and Foden in midfield anchoring in front of the defence/playmaking just behind Kane. Alternate Sancho and Rashford with Grealish and Sterling and Greenwood with DCL, I think DCL is a much better all-round centre-forward though and would be a better fit with Kane behind and Grealish and Sterling in the side. 

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21 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:


His control and link play is unreal, even when he’s being hassled. Always manages to get something on a ball and flick it or bring it down. Fantastic player. 

 

To be fair in the Kane - Lewandowski comparison, Lewy had the opportunity to continuously develop under some of the finest minds in the game. I think his managers were Klopp, Guardiola, Ancelotti, Heynckes, Flick, Nagelsmann. You cant play under these guys without developing an allround game. I am not giving the credit entirely to the managers also, it is Lewy's hardwork, commitment, and talent which led him to be an elite striker.  But if you are an attacking player who is looking to refine and evolve your skills, you couldn't pick a better set of managers.

 

With all due respect to Spurs managers, outside of Poch, Kane did not have the opportunity to work with a similar level of managers.  And as highly as I rate Poch, just from a purely attacking point of view or from the perspective of developing attackers, I would rate Klopp and Guardiola slightly above him.

 

I feel that if Kane was in Lewy's setup and Lewy was in Kane's setup, by setup I mean the entire career path - Dortmund, Bayern,etc., Kane would be putting up Lewy numbers but Lewy would most likely not be matching Kane. 

 

Again, not trying to downplay Lewy's achievements which are incredible. It is more from the point of view of how highly I rate Kane. 

 

 

Edited by rgk_lfc

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16 hours ago, tgarve said:

Awful comment- Pickford is miles above the other keepers and been great on pens

 

I think Pickford was a liability yesterday, and not just for the blunder that very nearly gave them a comical deflected goal.

 

He is a good instinctive shot stopper, so can be good at pens, that's true.

 

But he loses his head and every now and again he has the awful distribution skills of Yodel. He's either spanking the ball miles up the pitch to no purpose and giving a decent chance of it coming right back at us, or on at least one occasion making a short pass to the wrong player that played our defence right into trouble.

 

The distribution point is exactly why we brought Dubravka in and suddenly, after I was wondering why we were prioritising a GK when we had the likes of Darlow who is similarly a decent shotstopper, it made sense. Particularly when we seemed to have much more glaring problems.

 

Not saying he is perfect but it became obvious that suddenly we had a keeper that could find a player up the pitch without a 50-50 headed battle, and that's why Rafa has brought him in. Suddenly, you've not quite got an extra sweeper, but you at least have another footballer. And suddenly, the pressure is off the rest just that little bit. Now, a keeper can't just be a shot stopper.

 

I do wonder how long he'll put up with Pickford at club level.

 

The other thing is that he really doesn't command the box, just runs about looking panicked, and that can't give the defence much confidence.

 

Of course it's an unfair comparison, but the likes of a David Seaman would leave their line at a corner or a cross and serenely gather the ball most of the time. They're intimidating in the way Pickford is not and never has been.

 

Whilst it doesn't help that Pickford is no giant and with arms that can barely reach the top of his head, also watching him scurrying about glued to his line unable to catch anything can't fill anyone with confidence in the last few minutes of a game when you just need to hang on and the air raid sirens are going off.

 

Where I do agree with you, however, is that I don't know what better options we have. But Southgate has a few matches now where we have the opportunity to experiment instead of just picking his favourites. And I do think this keeper is a weak link at the top level, so he should.

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11 minutes ago, Abacus said:

 

I think Pickford was a liability yesterday, and not just for the blunder that very nearly gave them a comical deflected goal.

 

He is a good instinctive shot stopper, so can be good at pens, that's true.

 

But he loses his head and every now and again he has the awful distribution skills of Yodel. He's either spanking the ball miles up the pitch to no purpose and giving a decent chance of it coming right back at us, or on at least one occasion making a short pass to the wrong player that played our defence right into trouble.

 

The distribution point is exactly why we brought Dubravka in and suddenly, after I was wondering why we were prioritising a GK when we had the likes of Darlow who is similarly a decent shotstopper, it made sense. Particularly when we seemed to have much more glaring problems.

 

Not saying he is perfect but it became obvious that suddenly we had a keeper that could find a player up the pitch without a 50-50 headed battle, and that's why Rafa has brought him in. Suddenly, you've not quite got an extra sweeper, but you at least have another footballer. And suddenly, the pressure is off the rest just that little bit. Now, a keeper can't just be a shot stopper.

 

I do wonder how long he'll put up with Pickford at club level.

 

The other thing is that he really doesn't command the box, just runs about looking panicked, and that can't give the defence much confidence.

 

Of course it's an unfair comparison, but the likes of a David Seaman would leave their line at a corner or a cross and serenely gather the ball most of the time. They're intimidating in the way Pickford is not and never has been.

 

Whilst it doesn't help that Pickford is no giant and with arms that can barely reach the top of his head, also watching him scurrying about glued to his line unable to catch anything can't fill anyone with confidence in the last few minutes of a game when you just need to hang on and the air raid sirens are going off.

 

Where I do agree with you, however, is that I don't know what better options we have. But Southgate has a few matches now where we have the opportunity to experiment instead of just picking his favourites. And I do think this keeper is a weak link at the top level, so he should.

Very good analysis, but he’s the best we have and the least of our problems which even then we have so few problems that drawing away to Poland needn’t be played as a  disaster which some circles are painting it as. We need to recognise this is a very young team that is evolving and getting better and better and only ever going to get better, Southgate is in that bracket too as a relative rookie. He’s achieved more than any England manager other than Sir Alf Ramsey and more than more esteemed and experienced managers at international level. It’s all good, we just need to tweak things here and there. 

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11 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Can we call him Lewy and not ‘Lewa’, please. Lewa is his wife’s name. 
 

I’ll also except King Lewy or The Polish R9

Surely it's just L9? 

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20 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Robert? Or just that I’m comparing him to one of the best ever. 

Ahh, fair enough. Call him what you like tbh, he's very, very good and in an era not dominated by Messi and Ronaldo he'd have won many many more individual awards imo. 

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56 minutes ago, midds said:

Ahh, fair enough. Call him what you like tbh, he's very, very good and in an era not dominated by Messi and Ronaldo he'd have won many many more individual awards imo. 


Oh for sure. I was mostly just arsing about, TBH. But I’m sure I read somewhere his nickname is Lewy and his wife is Lewa and doesn’t like being called that. He’s awesome, either way. 

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15 hours ago, Abacus said:

 

I think Pickford was a liability yesterday, and not just for the blunder that very nearly gave them a comical deflected goal.

 

He is a good instinctive shot stopper, so can be good at pens, that's true.

 

But he loses his head and every now and again he has the awful distribution skills of Yodel. He's either spanking the ball miles up the pitch to no purpose and giving a decent chance of it coming right back at us, or on at least one occasion making a short pass to the wrong player that played our defence right into trouble.

 

The distribution point is exactly why we brought Dubravka in and suddenly, after I was wondering why we were prioritising a GK when we had the likes of Darlow who is similarly a decent shotstopper, it made sense. Particularly when we seemed to have much more glaring problems.

 

Not saying he is perfect but it became obvious that suddenly we had a keeper that could find a player up the pitch without a 50-50 headed battle, and that's why Rafa has brought him in. Suddenly, you've not quite got an extra sweeper, but you at least have another footballer. And suddenly, the pressure is off the rest just that little bit. Now, a keeper can't just be a shot stopper.

 

I do wonder how long he'll put up with Pickford at club level.

 

The other thing is that he really doesn't command the box, just runs about looking panicked, and that can't give the defence much confidence.

 

Of course it's an unfair comparison, but the likes of a David Seaman would leave their line at a corner or a cross and serenely gather the ball most of the time. They're intimidating in the way Pickford is not and never has been.

 

Whilst it doesn't help that Pickford is no giant and with arms that can barely reach the top of his head, also watching him scurrying about glued to his line unable to catch anything can't fill anyone with confidence in the last few minutes of a game when you just need to hang on and the air raid sirens are going off.

 

Where I do agree with you, however, is that I don't know what better options we have. But Southgate has a few matches now where we have the opportunity to experiment instead of just picking his favourites. And I do think this keeper is a weak link at the top level, so he should.

Spot on!

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42 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

I read all that and still have absolutely no idea what the supposed positives are of increasing the frequency of the World Cup, or indeed how it's supposed to address player fatigue. Wenger is one of those elder statesmen whom I'd normally feel enthused about having a key role at FIFA because he's a bit of a legend and extremely intelligent. But fuck knows what he's going on about here.

 

I want to know more about it because we shouldn't be averse to change in some form and, like I say, his view carries weight; but it'd take a massive amount of persuasion to convince me this wasn't just another attempt at trying to make more money, plain and simple. The World Cup is an intense global spectacle which captures in the interest of - presumably - billions of people. Of course they're going to try and multiply the financial receipts by two. 

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