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UK Politics: The Tory Years - 2015-17


BlufPurdi

What do you think will be the outcome of the General Election?  

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  1. 1. What do you think will be the outcome of the General Election?

    • Conservatives win increased majority
    • Conservatives retain small majority
    • Hung parliament
    • Labour win majority


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I would love those two for a few years, just to get that voice heard in parliament and on TV. What happens to Labour as a party is secondary to that.

Not sure I get what you're saying, mate? How can what happens to Labour as a party be secondary to getting a voice heard? What use is it having a voice without a party to seize power in government in order to implement the changes necessary to realise whatever it is that voice is opining about?

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It's hope, GM. It may be misguided, but there's hope with Corbyn, but none with the rest. It's worth seeing what's going to come.  That is if the PLP let him stay.  I've never seen people talk about a leader like they do Corbyn, particularly people that have long stopped supporting Labour.  He'll not win 2020, but hopefully he can reshape the party and make its aims clearer and create a robust identity that cannot be picked apart by political hypocrisies that Labour have suffered in the last few decades.  All of that is hope, but hope can be contagious.

 

I notice Blair is out to savage not only Corbyn but Watson too.  Can that guy get more odious?

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You wanted someone to have a debate, that's what you've got. The electorate will be totally adverse to him though. Not that I'm arsed. Labour will be out of government for the next ten years.

 

I can understand your contentedness, but you don't build movements overnight, or as little as 5 years.  But let's see if Labour can handle him winning first, or whether they'd prefer to have him win then take him down as leader, more or less totally killing itself.  There's a lot of people, particularly Labour MPs that deserve the shock this is going to give them.

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Blair's absolutely right. He saved the Labour Party, had traditional Tories everywhere voting for moderate policies because they were absolute convinced it was the right thing for every aspect of society. Since his beytral the party's gone so far backwards it rightly finds itself 99 seats behind the Conservatives. This will only continue with someone like Corbyn, as well intentioned as he may be.

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Blair's absolutely right. He saved the Labour Party, had traditional Tories everywhere voting for moderate policies because they were absolute convinced it was the right thing for every aspect of society. Since his beytral the party's gone so far backwards it rightly finds itself 99 seats behind the Conservatives. This will only continue with someone like Corbyn, as well intentioned as he may be.

Agree with this. Remember my staunch left grandma and parents buying his bullshit by the bucketful only for them to feel utterly shafted once it became clear to them what he intended to do.

 

Still at that time the Tories had to go, no two ways about it.

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I loved New Labour for the atmosphere of hope and progress they represented, the idea of not having the Tories was euphoric. But I was a bit too young to know about his political leanings in detail.

 

In hindsight I'm still glad they did it, but what we need now is a 'new' Labour driven by people with more traditional Labour values. I'm absolutely convinced that people are ready to hear an alternative message, as evidenced by UKIP and SNP progression. The main problem is that the media and the establishment may not be.

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I would love those two for a few years, just to get that voice heard in parliament and on TV. What happens to Labour as a party is secondary to that.

 

Not sure I get what you're saying, mate? How can what happens to Labour as a party be secondary to getting a voice heard? What use is it having a voice without a party to seize power in government in order to implement the changes necessary to realise whatever it is that voice is opining about?

 

Because we need to change the conversation, we need genuine left-leaning voices to get on TV every week making their case. Really, the next 5-10 years just needs to be spent creating the environment in which a non-conservative party or coalition has a chance to get elected.

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I would love those two for a few years, just to get that voice heard in parliament and on TV. What happens to Labour as a party is secondary to that.

 

Not sure I get what you're saying, mate? How can what happens to Labour as a party be secondary to getting a voice heard? What use is it having a voice without a party to seize power in government in order to implement the changes necessary to realise whatever it is that voice is opining about?

 

Because we need to change the conversation, we need genuine left-leaning voices to get on TV every week making their case. Really, the next 5-10 years just needs to be spent creating the environment in which a non-conservative party or coalition has a chance to get elected.

 

So basically, you just want a massive propaganda smack? I'd probably start with getting together a cohesive, populist message that won't be more of the same of "bash the rich/bankers/anyone who isn't anti austerity" stuff before even thinking about sticking people in front of a camera.

 

Tbh it won't matter what the message is, when the media paints Labour as "Jezbollah" when Corbyn gets in thanks to his closeness to the IRA/Hezbollah etc people won't care what the message is. That's the problem with a candidate like Corbyn, he may have real appeal amongst the left but such is his history of cosying up to some not very nice groups, he'll be totally unelectable.

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As well intentioned as Corbyn is and I hope he wins, he'll stand no chance of taking the party anywhere against the Tories. Too many vested interests pulling too many strings in the media.

 

 

Labour party members, please think before you vote for Jeremy Corbyn

 

 

Calm down dear, it’s only a poll, and after 7 May, surely no one is much inclined to trust them. Except when, like this morning’s YouGov survey in the Times, they play into the kind of rightwing narrative that is determined to frame Labour as the Syriza of the north, with Jeremy Corbyn as an older version of Alexis Tsipras.

 

Peter Kellner, who runs YouGov, will have been extremely cautious about his methodology, and if the poll had been presented in the light of his health warnings – it was, he said, “a grainy snapshot of the Grand National about halfway through the race” – it might not have dominated the news this morning the way that it has.

 

No one can claim to know this new self-selected electorate, created as a plunge in the dark by Ed Miliband to try to escape from the shadow cast by his own dependence on union votes. There is just under a month before the cut-off date of 12 August in which another few hundred thousand people can pay their £3 and buy themselves a vote. There is also still time to step off the cycle of recovery that the experience of the Tories after 1997 seemed to establish for a party thrashed in the polls after a prolonged spell in power.

 

Jeremy Corbyn as leader would fit tidily into the pattern the Conservative party established in its wilderness years. First was William Hague, someone who looks like a compromise between the soul of the party and a saleable product. Then came Iain Duncan Smith, a man with a direct line to the soul of the party but the electoral appeal of a family pet with an uncertain temper. Then finally, after the nightmare, the awakening and selection of a leader who actually looked and sounded plausible.

 

Labour cannot afford to indulge in that kind of protracted crisis. Britain cannot afford Labour to indulge in a protracted crisis.

 

I remember when Michael Foot led the party and it couldn’t organise a coach trip without getting stuck under a bridge

There is room for a party of the emotional spasm in British politics but that is a party of protest, not a party of government. Labour is a party of government. That means it has to shape and articulate the beliefs and aspirations of a majority of its citizens, not just an apocalyptic tendency. That was the point Tony Blair was making this morning.

 

When I first became a journalist, the best event of the year was always the Tribune rally at Labour’s annual conference. Held in a huge, smoke-filled, packed-out hall, speaker after speaker – these were the days of early Neil Kinnock and David Blunkett – made funny, impassioned, venomous, brilliant speeches that sent us out into the night full of righteous anger.

 

I remember when Michael Foot led the party and it couldn’t organise a coach trip without getting stuck under a bridge. I wrote about splits and walk-outs and rows and hair-pulling in the ladies at the Grand in Brighton. I remember Labour facing oblivion – very nearly beaten into third place by the SDP in 1983 – and the long, hard struggle to re-establish the party as a serious force in politics.

 

Please, new associate members who will shape the party for the next five years, maybe forever: do a little research. Think what kind of country you want for you and your children and, even more importantly, think how you might get there. Now think, is Jeremy Corbyn in the middle of that picture? I don’t think so.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/22/labour-party-members-jeremy-corbyn?CMP=fb_gu

 

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