Rafa Benítez (unemployed)

[Billy Pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

 What? It's absolutely beyond me how anyone can have that opinion. He signed one first choice striker in Gayle and he was a revelation. He signed one backup striker in Murphy and he did a grand job when called upon. One winger, Ritchie, who was basically the most productive player in the league that season I think, and served us very well in the first season back up. Centre-mid, Diame, who played a big role and went onto even better things in the Prem, and Hayden, again who provided brilliant value for money. Two CBs: Clark, who formed a formidable partnership with Lascelles, and Hanley, who wasn't up to much but provided cover. Full-backs was 1 out of 3 in terms of Yedlin being more use than Gamez and Lazaar. Then you've got Sels, which was the only big swing-and-a-miss.

 

I mean his signings (and their success) were probably the most impactful thing he did to ensure promotion. 

 

In the PL the context changed cos the budget was farcical and he could never get his first choices. But still resulted in several fantastic buys: Dubravka, Schar, Fernández, Lejeune, Kenedy season 1. Even Joselu and Ki provided a reasonable return when you consider they cost about fourteen pence between them. Who knows what Miggy would've become in a Rafa team. I've always liked him and he certainly played a big part in keeping us well clear of the drop in 18/19.

Over the course of his career he has spent an absolute fortune on complete shite and has zero qualms about having a player for a week and then deciding to never use him. Like I love rafa and think he did an amazing job but what he didn’t do was spend money wisely when he had it. Now for me, in our situation, I’d argue that it actually isn’t a problem anymore and that he is the sort of manager where unlimited money means he can make transfer mistakes and have zero backlash. Maybe 3 for every good signing is overboard but one of the reasons Ashley didn’t want to give him what he wanted was that he had already bought loads of players that didn’t work out or he didn’t want to use. If I could be arsed I’d go through all of the transfers in his time here but the ones that immediately come to mind as less than great signings are the likes of Hanley, sells, lazaar and Jacob Murphy. Even Almiron in hindsight, because as much as I rate him he isn’t worth what we paid and has basically been a square peg in a round hole ever since rafa left. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Billy Pilgrim

[Fantail Breeze]

I don’t get why it’s not straightforward to say he was a success with us, but hasn’t been elsewhere for some time.

 

It’s not totally alien, happens all the time. See Moyes as a prime example.

[Conjo]

47 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

I still don't think we were overly impressive that year given the squad and our struggles to get there. However, finishing 10th the following year was brilliant and Rafa's standout year here imo.

 

Do you think the two could be connected somehow?

 

My main takeaway from the championship season was that he was setting us up to play a certain way so the players were better prepared for the return to the premier league. So often you see exciting teams tear up the championship, but then struggle to replicate the same style in the premier league. They are not able to completely change their style of play to a more defensive/structured/organised style of play and get relegated again immediately afterwards.

[jack j]

20 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Course he did. I can't see why you wouldn't. Never had a doubt in my mind that he would've stayed here instead had it been worthwhile to do so from a football point of view. It wasn't though. And why the fuck shouldn't he have deserved a payrise? Right now we'd have had Ashley downsizing to overcome the deficit from receiving no more parachute payments had Rafa not stuck around and dragged us back to the Premier League. 

Surely he's gotta regret going to China and then Everton. Obviously his wallet won't but what was he ever going to gain in those 2 jobs. Always on a hiding to nowt

[Mike]

On 29/11/2021 at 05:00, The Prophet said:

If Ancelotti and Benitez, both former Champions League winners, can't get a tune out of this Everton side, you've got go wonder how deep their issues are.

 

Was thinking this last night.

[Mikky]

Their squad is terrible - Digne, Richarlison and DCL are the only genuine quality players they have - Godfrey/Keane are decent, Doucoure possibly - but that’s it 

 

all that investment and they have barely anything to show for it 

[Yorkie]

8 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

I don’t get why it’s not straightforward to say he was a success with us, but hasn’t been elsewhere for some time.

 

It’s not totally alien, happens all the time. See Moyes as a prime example.

 

That's totally fair. In hindsight the Everton move hasn't been a good one but I don't think he's the type to have regrets. He'll have been aware of the risks but decided it was the right move for him anyway, particularly after being stuck in a Chinese hotel a million miles away from his family during COVID. Another thing I've found to be a laughable criticism is that he decided to take a job close to his home.  Imagine being criticised for that in any other industry. 

[Jaqen]

20 minutes ago, Mikky said:

Their squad is terrible - Digne, Richarlison and DCL are the only genuine quality players they have - Godfrey/Keane are decent, Doucoure possibly - but that’s it 

 

all that investment and they have barely anything to show for it 

 

Digne looks to have regressed a fair bit under Rafa this season I think. 

[The Prophet]

Keane has been a total car crash this season.

[St. Maximin]

1 hour ago, Tomato Deuce said:

What difference would it have made had we won the league with 115 points instead of 94?

 

And like I said, we *were* comfortably promoted. We finished 9 points above the playoffs zone.

Ultimately not a lot. We did what we had to and should be thankful to Rafa for a great job overall.

 

I'm more just acknowledging the downsides to his time here having analysed things a bit deeper than just points tallies, which is what we've all been calling for from pundits and the like during the Bruce era. Sure it seems harsh being critical, but I feel it's proportionate. He wasn't a miracle worker and his tactics definitely had their limitations too. Should be very grateful overall having said that.

[The Prophet]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29

 

[St. Maximin]

40 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Do you think the two could be connected somehow?

 

My main takeaway from the championship season was that he was setting us up to play a certain way so the players were better prepared for the return to the premier league. So often you see exciting teams tear up the championship, but then struggle to replicate the same style in the premier league. They are not able to completely change their style of play to a more defensive/structured/organised style of play and get relegated again immediately afterwards.

Yes I agree. However, I still think they had their limitations in the PL. I still remembered our record against the best teams being poor, but we did beat Man City fwiw. At the same time we failed to register a shot on target against Fulham when bottom so think Rafa had to take ownership of that too. 

[Guest HTT II]

10 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-everton/alletransfers/verein/29

 

Bloody hell they have spunked a lot of money in a lot of shit players.

[Guest neesy111]

9 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Yes I agree. However, I still think they had their limitations in the PL. I still remembered our record against the best teams being poor, but we did beat Man City fwiw. At the same time we failed to register a shot on target against Fulham when bottom so think Rafa had to take ownership of that too. 

 

We beat Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd in the season we came back up.

 

[Guest HTT II]

They have the nucleus of a good team, but a poor squad, sound familiar? 

[gjohnson]

Sometimes a manager just clicks with a club. 

 

Rafa did with us, and managed to sew a silk purse out of a pigs ear. It's on Charnley and Ashley that he isn't still here. There was a clear footballing plan, and it was working very well.

 

A spell in China to boost his account when everyone barring pretty much us thought he was past it can't be blamed.

 

The Everton move was always going to be a disaster waiting to happen. No money to get the players he wanted, and an aggressive fanbase wanting him sacked before even starting. 

 

It looks to me like his appetite for football has gone...even when we were on horrific runs the plan and style was obvious and improved every match. Difference is that Everton were never going to tolerate a bad run even with signs of improvement just because of who he is.

[Wullie]

I still can't get over the amount of money they spent on Iwobi.

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, gjohnson said:

Sometimes a manager just clicks with a club. 

 

Rafa did with us, and managed to sew a silk purse out of a pigs ear. It's on Charnley and Ashley that he isn't still here. There was a clear footballing plan, and it was working very well.

 

A spell in China to boost his account when everyone barring pretty much us thought he was past it can't be blamed.

 

The Everton move was always going to be a disaster waiting to happen. No money to get the players he wanted, and an aggressive fanbase wanting him sacked before even starting. 

 

It looks to me like his appetite for football has gone...even when we were on horrific runs the plan and style was obvious and improved every match. Difference is that Everton were never going to tolerate a bad run even with signs of improvement just because of who he is.

He should have went in to international football. Said it at the time it's better suited to where he is in his career. 

[St. Maximin]

6 minutes ago, neesy111 said:

 

We beat Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd in the season we came back up.

 

So we did. Not sure why I chose to forget those...

[Guest neesy111]

Just now, St. Maximin said:

So we did. Not sure why I chose to forget those...

We did struggle more the next season vs the big teams.

 

2 very different seasons.

[Conjo]

36 minutes ago, Mikky said:

Their squad is terrible - Digne, Richarlison and DCL are the only genuine quality players they have - Godfrey/Keane are decent, Doucoure possibly - but that’s it 

 

all that investment and they have barely anything to show for it 

 

I had to look at Transfermarkt to see where their money has gone the last few seasons. 20/21 season is fine. Their three main purchases Allan, Doucoure & Godfrey for ~€25m each seems to be good buys, so far at least. However, the three seasons before that there are a few standouts for me:

 

€27,5m - Moise Keane

€25m - Jean Phillipe Gbamin - who the fuck is this?!?  Never heard of him before, haven't seen him play (according to transfermarkt he's featured in 2 pl matches in 19/20, 1 match last season and 2 matches this season)

€25m - Andre Gomes - decent buy, but seemingly struggling to get back to former level after injury

€30,5 - Alex Iwobi - terrible player

€9,5m - Fabien Delph - not the biggest fee, but assume he is on big wages

€49,5 (!!!) - Gylfi Sigurdsson 

€22,5m  - Theo Walcott

€27,5m - Davy Klaassen

€22,5m - Cenk Tosun

 

That's €239,5m wasted the in '17, '18 & '19 combined.

[gjohnson]

Just now, Dokko said:

He should have went in to international football. Said it at the time it's better suited to where he is in his career. 

Have to disagree with this....couldn't think of a less suitable manager for international football.

 

His success is due to long term drilling of defensive and attacking patterns, which he simply wouldn't have time for in an International team.

[nufcjb]

3 hours ago, WillingtonMag said:

So glad he went to Everton and didn't end up back here like, hated watching us under him.

So glad he went to Everton and didn't end up back here like because would have hated to read comments like above even if we won matches if he was the manager.

[TRon]

10 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Sometimes a manager just clicks with a club. 

 

Rafa did with us, and managed to sew a silk purse out of a pigs ear. It's on Charnley and Ashley that he isn't still here. There was a clear footballing plan, and it was working very well.

 

A spell in China to boost his account when everyone barring pretty much us thought he was past it can't be blamed.

 

The Everton move was always going to be a disaster waiting to happen. No money to get the players he wanted, and an aggressive fanbase wanting him sacked before even starting. 

 

It looks to me like his appetite for football has gone...even when we were on horrific runs the plan and style was obvious and improved every match. Difference is that Everton were never going to tolerate a bad run even with signs of improvement just because of who he is.

 

Don't think Rafa will ever lose his appetite for football, he's probably a bit gutted that he's ended up at another club with a lop-sided squad. Even though he didn't get backed by Ashley here, he was in a good place because we had had so many dud managers, for us to actually land a world class one was a dream for most fans. We were always going to give him our full backing regardless of results, it was just great to have a manager who wanted better things for the club again, not just here to pick up the wages like the other cunts before and after. 

[Dokko]

13 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Have to disagree with this....couldn't think of a less suitable manager for international football.

 

His success is due to long term drilling of defensive and attacking patterns, which he simply wouldn't have time for in an International team.

I'm thinking smaller nation where he can run a project at all levels dragging them up a tier and become a hero. If he can't adapt his methods then like I've said for some time now, he's no longer top tier himself and realistically his ability as a 2nd tier coach should be questioned also.