Raconteur Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I'd love to hear Caulkin's take on the "other things" that motivated Rafa's China move apart from money. And while I can't condemn the man, I do feel a little uneasy at squaring the entirely valid departure from NUFC on principles with swallowing wonga the next day. That's as much my juvenile inner commie that hates "commies" owning the richest league in the world as anything to do with Rafa. In retrospect, I'm disappointed he didn't go to Celtic, and I really thought Derby might be a chance given he could live in Liverpool and do something special with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 As sad as it is to see Rafa go, to be brutally honest (and to state the obvious) I think Rafa either staying or going was always irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is whether a takeover happens or not. If Rafa had stayed and there was no takeover it would just have been a stay of execution delaying the inevitable. It would buy us a few more years of "hope", hope that Rafa working miracles would eventually get the message through to Ashley, but if the past 3 years didn't soften Ashley's stance then another 3 years would most likely have done nothing - assuming Rafa would've taken another 3 years of constant lies and obfuscation during transfer windows. Some of us may have the idea that if Rafa could've just added a few more quality first teamers to a squad already more than the sum of its parts, then even under Ashley he could maybe turn NUFC into a dark horse for a top 6 spot, but under Mike Ashley this just wasn't going to happen. As soon as Ashley sees the team has no threat of relegation he'd see no point in buying any more first teamers, if anything we'd be more likely to sell star players to continue making him a nice profit in the transfer window. It could even be something that makes matters worse, i.e. an NUFC secure in the PL under Rafa, with no immediate risk of relegation, is an NUFC Ashley has no reason to sell. One of the big reasons he's supposedly willing to sell now is because he's unlikely to ever get more for the club and is quite likely to see the clubs value plummet with future relegations. If the takeover happens and the new owners are ambitious with the ability to invest in the squad and infrastructure, Rafa's importance to NUFC actually goes down a notch for me. Part of what made Rafa so special for us was that in addition to being a world class manager capable of organising a team like a proper manager should (unlike The King, Carver, McClaren, etc), he was also the only manager for unknown reasons (maybe family, maybe weariness of cutthroat CL elites) worth his salt willing to go near an Ashley owned NUFC. Noone with options would've touched NUFC with a barge pole with all the lies, backstabbing, and reckless decisions by an owner who simply doesn't care about the club, the fans or the city. He's the only manager who was willing to try to get the owner to see some sense, both through words and through leading by example, and did everything he could to get supporters back on side. If he didn't fancy taking NUFC on then we'd be stuck with utter dross in the dugout and would probably have never made it out of the Championship at the first time of asking. But the point is if Ashley is now out of the picture, all of those positives become irrelevant. We're not restricted to desperate PFMs, League One rejects and hoofball connoisseurs. Whilst Rafa is still a world class manager who would've been well placed to lead NUFC into a new era, he's not the only good manager in world football. There's plenty with good experience/CV's (some better than Rafa's) or potential who can organise a defense, spot real talent when they see it, get players to try, implement a style of play, etc etc, and I imagine those managers would want to be in the NUFC dugout if we're talking about rich owners wanting to transform NUFC. Maybe we can bring in a manager with a better CV (e.g. Jose), or someone more likely to work with flair players, less tactically rigid, etc etc. The options widen immensely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 If Rafa had stayed it would have meant he'd got the assurances he wanted. Signing Rondon would have been a sign. Which is why it was always more likely that he would leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamninator Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I'd love to hear Caulkin's take on the "other things" that motivated Rafa's China move apart from money. And while I can't condemn the man, I do feel a little uneasy at squaring the entirely valid departure from NUFC on principles with swallowing wonga the next day. That's as much my juvenile inner commie that hates "commies" owning the richest league in the world as anything to do with Rafa. In retrospect, I'm disappointed he didn't go to Celtic, and I really thought Derby might be a chance given he could live in Liverpool and do something special with them. Why is going to Celtic somehow better? You could parachute Pardew into that job and they'd likely still be a solid bet to win the Domestic Treble for the fourth straight year. His season at Celtic would consist of 12 games - navigating the Champions League qualifiers and trying not to get pasted in the Group Stages, he would pretty much be taking November to July off every year while they stomped through Motherwell and Ross County. At least with this China job he has the stimulation of taking over a mid table team that is 22 points behind the leaders while he bides his time for something more interesting in Europe. On a side note can we get "And after three years they painted the walls" stuck on banner outside the ground next time the bed sheets come out? That even tops some of the quotes that came out of the Keegan saga. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Getting slated by some our fans for going to China, morons. I reckon the reason he's not waiting around for new owners is because he knows the takeover is bullshit, which it will prove to be imo, dreadfully bad this. I'm a bit dissapointed in him tbf. I adored the man but he was building something good here. I wanted to see Almiron and Longstaff under him for a full season and I think top 10 was still a realistic goal for next season. Just seems a shame to chuck all what we had here away to go to some bad Chinese team. You just know when we get a new Proper Manager he'll play Colback and Shelvey ahead of Longstaff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I'd love to hear Caulkin's take on the "other things" that motivated Rafa's China move apart from money. And while I can't condemn the man, I do feel a little uneasy at squaring the entirely valid departure from NUFC on principles with swallowing wonga the next day. That's as much my juvenile inner commie that hates "commies" owning the richest league in the world as anything to do with Rafa. In retrospect, I'm disappointed he didn't go to Celtic, and I really thought Derby might be a chance given he could live in Liverpool and do something special with them. Why is going to Celtic somehow better? Because I like Celtic, and I don't like "Chinese football" as a concept? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Okay, hope I can contribute something for you guys, as someone who lives near China First of all, I genuinely don’t blame Rafa to go China because he didn’t have much options left, and that’s due to us. There were a huge lot of interests back in April, like Roma, but Rafa turned them all down till the end of June, because he wanted to stay with us. And secondly, China is a very complicated market in relation to football. There are a lot of hidden terms and rules that are not disclosed to the public. For example, a lot of managers contract has a release clause that, if the manager has lost three games in a row, the club can sack him immediately without any compensation paid. In addition to that, there are a lot of requests from owners and even the govern bodies, and there’s basically no such thing as control of transfer. One recent example is most of the national team players are forced to transfer to Evergrande for a pre-determined fees set by the government, in order for “better preparation for World Cup 2022”. This ridiculous order had forced the reigning league champion to sell their MVP Wu Lei to Espanyol last January in order to prevent financial loss. I think Rafa has been badly advised for this move. I ain’t disappointed, I just feel sorry to this legend that he had to make this move because he wanted to stay with us, the real fans who really care for the club. He won’t last in China for long. Worst fit imo. He would be back to Europe within one year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samptime29 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rafa has earned the right to do what the fuck he wants. Showed us respect, I show him respect. Ashley is the problem here. Could be the first manager to win Champions League and Chinese League Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rafa has earned the right to do what the fuck he wants. Showed us respect, I show him respect. Ashley is the problem here. Could be the first manager to win Champions League and Chinese League Exactly this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Okay, hope I can contribute something for you guys, as someone who lives near China First of all, I genuinely don’t blame Rafa to go China because he didn’t have much options left, and that’s due to us. There were a huge lot of interests back in April, like Roma, but Rafa turned them all down till the end of June, because he wanted to stay with us. And secondly, China is a very complicated market in relation to football. There are a lot of hidden terms and rules that are not disclosed to the public. For example, a lot of managers contract has a release clause that, if the manager has lost three games in a row, the club can sack him immediately without any compensation paid. In addition to that, there are a lot of requests from owners and even the govern bodies, and there’s basically no such thing as control of transfer. One recent example is most of the national team players are forced to transfer to Evergrande for a pre-determined fees set by the government, in order for “better preparation for World Cup 2022”. This ridiculous order had forced the reigning league champion to sell their MVP Wu Lei to Espanyol last January in order to prevent financial loss. I think Rafa has been badly advised for this move. I ain’t disappointed, I just feel sorry to this legend that he had to make this move because he wanted to stay with us, the real fans who really care for the club. He won’t last in China for long. Worst fit imo. He would be back to Europe within one year. Interesting insight I was reading that Carrasco had a massive fallout with Dalian Yifang just recently because he couldn’t be bothered to travel back from Europe in time for a match. Also their other star player Hamsik has made a lot of negative comments about Rafa in the past. As you say I can’t imagine he’ll be in China for long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rafa has just announced it. And he has called it a “project” Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyne81 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Have to say I'm surprised at his choice but good luck to him. Maybe the job he wanted isn't around so instead of sitting on his arse all day why not try something different and rake in the coin doing what you love? This is the man that managed kids at one point when he didn't have a job Go on Rafa lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Okay, hope I can contribute something for you guys, as someone who lives near China First of all, I genuinely don’t blame Rafa to go China because he didn’t have much options left, and that’s due to us. There were a huge lot of interests back in April, like Roma, but Rafa turned them all down till the end of June, because he wanted to stay with us. And secondly, China is a very complicated market in relation to football. There are a lot of hidden terms and rules that are not disclosed to the public. For example, a lot of managers contract has a release clause that, if the manager has lost three games in a row, the club can sack him immediately without any compensation paid. In addition to that, there are a lot of requests from owners and even the govern bodies, and there’s basically no such thing as control of transfer. One recent example is most of the national team players are forced to transfer to Evergrande for a pre-determined fees set by the government, in order for “better preparation for World Cup 2022”. This ridiculous order had forced the reigning league champion to sell their MVP Wu Lei to Espanyol last January in order to prevent financial loss. I think Rafa has been badly advised for this move. I ain’t disappointed, I just feel sorry to this legend that he had to make this move because he wanted to stay with us, the real fans who really care for the club. He won’t last in China for long. Worst fit imo. He would be back to Europe within one year. Fucking hell he should have stayed here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Feels a bit weird like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianovthetoon Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 He doesn’t look particularly happy on his unveiling pic mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Good luck Rafa - I can’t believe some of our fans are giving him stick about it FFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 He doesn’t look particularly happy on his unveiling pic mind paco like "fuck this" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicane Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Happy for him. Gan on and get your cheddar Rafa lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Good luck Rafa - I can’t believe some of our fans are giving him stick about it FFS Project? He's having a fucking laugh isn't he? Next he'll feel at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamninator Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rafa has earned the right to do what the fuck he wants. Showed us respect, I show him respect. Ashley is the problem here. Could be the first manager to win Champions League and Chinese League Behind Lippi, but not a bad two man list to be on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Realistically If we can allow forrin teams like Cardiff in the ENGLISH Premier League, we can let these guys in. So go on Rafa, get that league won. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Farewell sweet prince x Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rafa has earned the right to do what the fuck he wants. Showed us respect, I show him respect. Ashley is the problem here. Could be the first manager to win Champions League and Chinese League Behind Lippi, but not a bad two man list to be on Who are the most high profile managers to manage there Lippi, Pellegrini, Sven any others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Good luck Rafa - I can’t believe some of our fans are giving him stick about it FFS Project? He's having a fucking laugh isn't he? Next he'll feel at home. The project comment was obviously about NUFC but of course one ferkwit decided he knew better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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