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Video Assistant Referees (VAR)


VAR to be used in the Premier League, are you:  

298 members have voted

  1. 1. VAR to be used in the Premier League, are you:

    • Happy
    • Ambivalent
    • Angry


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57 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Last PL season there were 128 major VAR incidents, meaning around 1 in every 6 games. I'd say there's no reason to not celebrate goals.

 

32 goals in the PL were ruled out for offside by VAR. So 1 per 23-ish matches.

 

Last season we had no goals ruled out by VAR for offside. We benefited more by VAR decisions such as giving us a penalty that originally wasn't given due to a wrong offside decision by the linesman. We had no goals ruled out for handball either, but got two penalties given by VAR for it.

 

 

 

 

We had though what was probably our biggest goal of the season and what would've been one of the best moments of the season ruled out by VAR at Anfield (thank god for the follow up) (wasn't that one for handball?). We had others checked which in of itself delays it really being a goal to celebrate. What was probably our best moment under Rafa in the PL would have been rule out by VAR - Perez v Everton. We've seen countless other moments wiped off by VAR for other teams.

 

I don't really think those numbers show it's that rare - '128 major incidents' (we've also benefited by being a relatively low scoring side);. It's much more likely a goal will stand, but it's also entirely realistic that a goal will be wiped off. Especially when it's key that you narrow it down by types of goal that you know are more at risk. As I say, I'll probably celebrate a screamer from nowhere the same. As soon as you've been burned by one, I don't think any goals are the same. Fans of countless clubs know what it's like to think they've scored an important goal, but actually haven't - that fundamentally changes things from before. 

 

What it comes down to me for me:

You're really telling me if someone looks tight onside/offside, you can't tell, you know it's going to get VAR checked, puts the ball in the net you're going to celebrate the same as if you knew for a fact it's a goal? Honestly good for you if you can, I can't imagine how I could. 

 

 

Edited by Inferior Acuña

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5 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

 

We had though what was probably our biggest goal of the season and what would've been one of the best moments of the season ruled out by VAR at Anfield (thank god for the follow up) (wasn't that one for handball?). We had others checked which in of itself delays it really being a goal to celebrate. What was probably our best moment under Rafa in the PL would have been rule out by VAR - Perez v Everton. We've seen countless other moments wiped off by VAR for other teams.

 

I don't really think those numbers show it's that rare - '128 major incidents' (we've also benefited by being a relatively low scoring side);. It's much more likely a goal will stand, but it's also entirely realistic that a goal will be wiped off. Especially when it's key that you narrow it down by types of goal that you know are more at risk. As I say, I'll probably celebrate a screamer from nowhere the same. As soon as you've been burned by one, I don't think any goals are the same.

 

What it comes down to me for me:

You're really telling me if someone looks tight onside/offside, you can't tell, you know it's going to get VAR checked, puts the ball in the net you're going to celebrate the same as if you knew for a fact it's a goal? Honestly good for you if you can, I can't imagine how I could. 

 

Because statistically the goal will stand. If it's an obvious offside I'll not celebrate, just as I wouldn't before VAR. If I can't be sure it wasn't onside, I will await the on-field decision (or VAR decision). I feel people are being annoyed by VAR just to be annoyed by something. It has increased the number of correct referee decisions and that is what matters to me. If we win a game I'd be happy, but I'd be happier if the opponent couldn't point to the goal we won with being bullshit, it cheapens the victory for me.

 

My only issue with VAR is that the PL has incredibly shitty refs. There's no doubt issues now and then in other leagues as well, but there's controversy in the PL all the time whilst it works great in other leagues. When I watch the Spanish, German or Italian top divisions it tends to run flawlessly. It's only in the PL matches I even notice VAR existing most of the time.

 

 

Edited by Kaizero

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4 minutes ago, Nobody said:

I for one always think about stats when watching a football game. 

 

But you think about VAR. Just don't. Enjoy the match. You'd be consciously choosing to not enjoy the match for a reason that makes no sense and is no more likely to interfere (in a wrong way) with the match than before it was added.

 

 

Edited by Kaizero

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12 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Because statistically the goal will stand. If it's an obvious offside I'll not celebrate, just as I wouldn't before VAR. If I can't be sure it wasn't onside, I will await the on-field decision (or VAR decision). I feel people are being annoyed by VAR just to be annoyed by something. It has increased the number of correct referee decisions and that is what matters to me. If we win a game I'd be happy, but I'd be happier if the opponent couldn't point to the goal we won with being bullshit, it cheapens the victory for me.

 

My only issue with VAR is that the PL has incredibly shitty refs. There's no doubt issues now and then in other leagues as well, but there's controversy in the PL all the time whilst it works great in other leagues. When I watch the Spanish, German or Italian top divisions it tends to run flawlessly. It's only in the PL matches I even notice VAR existing most of the time.

 

 

 

 

I can promise you I'd love to not give a shit and enjoy a goal the same, it makes me sad that the something I absolutely loved has been diminished. I don't at all buy it's the same as before VAR. If I thought someone might be offside pre-VAR I glanced at the linesman in less than second. Statistically most goals will stand. But you can tell when a goal has to be checked, and you know then that is a significant chance, even if it's more likely to stand than not, that the thing you''d be jumping around ecstatic about doesn't exist. A goal celebration isn't a conscious choice, it's an emotional reaction so I can't make myself put the fact it might get disallowed out of my head, and think it's quite unlikely. It's likely that it will happen to some of our goals every season, and that's enough. I

 

The stuff about the importance of getting decisions right, cool, fair enough, I disagree. And I'm glad for you VAR hasn't diminished your enjoyment of goals. I really jumped into dispute the suggestion that a goal being disallowed by VAR is similar to pre-VAR - there's no point arguing about the decisions thing as it's totally subjective. 

 

 

Edited by Inferior Acuña

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6 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

I really jumped into dispute the suggestion that a goal being disallowed by VAR is similar to pre-VAR, which I just don't buy at all, as, like I say, it takes a glance to check a linesman, whereas VAR goes to review.

 

The end result is the same: the celebration stops once you notice something isn't right. With VAR you admittedly would celebrate a bit longer before realizing it might not stand than with the linesman flagging, so I can see the disappointment of a possible overturned goal being higher. But not celebrating at all? I don't buy that. If so, as mentioned, it's a conscious decision not to celebrate because you dislike something that makes the game more fair.

 

Again though, I am not arguing that VAR in the PL at the moment isn't utter shit due to the horrid refs. VAR is not meant to take center stage at all and yet it constantly does in the PL.

 

 

Edited by Kaizero

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14 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

The end result is the same: the celebration stops once you notice something isn't right. With VAR you admittedly would celebrate a bit longer before realizing it might not stand than with the linesman flagging, so I can see the disappointment of a possible overturned goal being higher. But not celebrating at all? I don't buy that. If so, as mentioned, it's a conscious decision not to celebrate because you dislike something that makes the game more fair.

 

Again though, I am not arguing that VAR in the PL at the moment isn't utter shit due to the horrid refs. VAR is not meant to take center stage at all and yet it constantly does in the PL.

 

 

 

 

Come on, I don't think the linesman's flag v VAR is substantively the same thing at all. Checking a linesman's flag is basically instantaneous, you know it's a goal when you begin celebrating. Some people don't check sure, you always see a few numpties jumping about when the stadium knows it was disallowed, but I reckon most people do. With VAR I'm not saying I don't celebrate at all, it's kind of cautious half celebration for a goal that seems like there could be an offside or something in run up. And to me that's a really big deal, because by far the best thing about football is the unique thing it has of the instant joy at the ball hitting the back of the net. It's no a conscious decision, it's that I don't feel that same instantaneous joy when I know the goal is being checked for validity.

 

As for the fairness thing, I just don't give that much of a shit. Perez's goal under Rafa v Everton was offside, I couldn't really give a fuck, I'm glad we had that moment. Sure referees should do their best, but increasing fairness is not worth being to the detriment of the best part of the game for me. If it was all about fairness for me, I'd probably prefer they devise a different game to determine who the best footballers were. We've argued about that bit before, that's just subjective about what you care about the game.

 

We've argued about this before and think have to agree to disagree. I don't think fairness is as important as you do, and you obviously experience goals different to me.

 

 

Edited by Inferior Acuña

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9 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

 

Come on, I don't think the linesman's flag v VAR is substantively the same thing at all. Checking a linesman's flag is basically instantaneous, you know it's a goal when you begin celebrating. Some people don't check sure, you always see a few numpties jumping about when the stadium knows it was disallowed, but I reckon most people do. With VAR I'm not saying I don't celebrate at all, it's kind of cautious half celebration for a goal that seems like there could be an offside or something in run up. And to me that's a really big deal, because by far the best thing about football is the unique thing it has of the instant joy at the ball hitting the back of the net. It's no a conscious decision, it's that I don't feel that same instantaneous joy when I know the goal is being checked for validity.

 

As for the fairness thing, I just don't give that much of a shit. Perez's goal under Rafa v Everton was offside, I couldn't really give a fuck, I'm glad we had that moment. Sure referees should do their best, but increasing fairness is not worth being to the detriment of the best part of the game for me. If it was all about fairness for me, I'd probably prefer they devise a different game to determine who the best footballers were. We've argued about that bit before, that's just subjective about what you care about the game.

 

 

 

 

It's a frustrating situation as at the same time as I understand your point of view, I don't understand it as I can't get into that mindset. It's all subjective though, as you say. For me there's no issue as I'm not thinking about the fact they check every goal and it might be disallowed, as well as me finding enjoyment in there being less human error in the game. We're just on different sides of the aisle and I am really sorry that for you the game is a worse experience than before. In an ideal world you'd find something that works for everyone. I also understand I'm probably in the minority, so if there ever was a popular vote and VAR was removed I'd not have kicked up a fuzz. But for me, it's improved my enjoyment of football massively.

 

It's been good debating this with you though, it's becoming rare to have an actual interaction on here that doesn't end up with name calling and calling people nazis if there's just a slight disagreement in opinion :lol: 

 

 

Edited by Kaizero

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