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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?
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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?
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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

But it was 15% before the banks crashed the economy and the Tories moved to protect them

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

As a nation, ie our elected representatives, knew and joined willingly.we weren't bounced or forced into accepting VAT.
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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

No, just like I haven't voted directly on most things, I take part in a process in which we elected representatives to do that sort of thing.
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Well this is awkward

 

 

I appreciate the US looking out for us in Ireland but the simple fact is Boris doesn't give a fuck what they think. He clearly has an agenda set out by the likes of Cummings and he's going to see it through to the bitter end.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

No, just like I haven't voted directly on most things, I take part in a process in which we elected representatives to do that sort of thing.

 

Did you vote in the EU referendum?

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

No, just like I haven't voted directly on most things, I take part in a process in which we elected representatives to do that sort of thing.

 

Did you vote in the EU referendum?

No and Yes.
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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

As a nation, ie our elected representatives, knew and joined willingly.we weren't bounced or forced into accepting VAT.

 

The public voted to join the EEC, a condition of joining was accepting VAT. Were the elected representatives to deny the "will of the people" over a minor change in taxation?

 

Can you provide evidence that people understood the complexities of VAT, at that time, any more than they understood the complexities of leaving in 2016?

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

 

:lol: I was 14 and mostly aware of football and this new wanking thing. Politics wasn't really on my radar.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

As a nation, ie our elected representatives, knew and joined willingly.we weren't bounced or forced into accepting VAT.

 

The public voted to join the EEC, a condition of joining was accepting VAT. Were the elected representatives to deny the "will of the people" over a minor change in taxation?

 

Can you provide evidence that people understood the complexities of VAT, at that time, any more than they understood the complexities of leaving in 2016?

The didnt vote to join the EEC, they later voted to remain.Their elected representatives done that or do you think the public should vote on each layer of policy ?
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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

 

The only restriction the EU has put on us in terms of VAT is that there is a limit of VAT rates that can be applied. And once again we actually have an exemption to this and have more VAT rates then any other EU country.

 

Yes there is the issue that you don't charge VAT on sales to other EU countries as we don't tariffs but I'm pretty sure we were quite happy to sign up to that

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

Yes, I know that, but it wasn't the EU who piled on the percentages, it was a far-right, English political movement.

 

Are they also responsible for Germany's 19% rate?

 

I'm sure if I had the inclination to check, I'd find every EU nation would have similar rates.

 

Did we vote against VAT ?

 

I' not sure we were ever given a chance.

You mean when we first entered the EU (EEC as was) and we knew the terms and such we were entering on and voted in favour of ?

 

Did you vote?

 

Christ, even I'm not old enough to have been of voting age then.

 

You could have been 17, so still politically aware. Therefore you might be able to confirm Madras's claim that 'WE' knew the terms.

 

I'm not in a position to say, so can only go on my own experiences (which involve the public being entirely uninformed on terms etc) or trust the experiences of those involved at the time.

 

:lol: I was 14 and mostly aware of football and this new wanking thing. Politics wasn't really on my radar.

 

Thatcher was around when I was fourteen and into the same thing. I wish politics wasn't on my radar.

 

Not saying I wanked to Thatcher, but she made Sam Fox much more appealing.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

 

The only restriction the EU has put on us in terms of VAT is that there is a limit of VAT rates that can be applied. And once again we actually have an exemption to this and have more VAT rates then any other EU country.

 

Yes there is the issue that you don't charge VAT on sales to other EU countries as we don't tariffs but I'm pretty sure we were quite happy to sign up to that

 

Switching to VAT was a condition of joining the EEC. If we didn't accept it, we don't join. The public voted to join.

 

So the question, in response to Madas's assumptions, is, "Did the public know all the details of VAT at the time of voting? Did they know it could go up to 20% at any time should the wealthy fuck up? Were they aware that the Rees Moggs of the time were in a position to exploit this in order to expand their wealth, and therefore power, and possibly even set up the likes of Rees Mogg, in the first place?"

 

My experience suggests otherwise but I will certainly bow down to somebody with relevant experience.

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

 

The only restriction the EU has put on us in terms of VAT is that there is a limit of VAT rates that can be applied. And once again we actually have an exemption to this and have more VAT rates then any other EU country.

 

Yes there is the issue that you don't charge VAT on sales to other EU countries as we don't tariffs but I'm pretty sure we were quite happy to sign up to that

 

Switching to VAT was a condition of joining the EEC. If we didn't accept it, we don't join. The public voted to join.

 

So the question, in response to Madas's assumptions, is, "Did the public know all the details of VAT at the time of voting? Did they know it could go up to 20% at any time should the wealthy fuck up? Were they aware that the Rees Moggs of the time were in a position to exploit this in order to expand their wealth, and therefore power, and possibly even set up the likes of Rees Mogg, in the first place?"

 

My experience suggests otherwise but I will certainly bow down to somebody with relevant experience.

 

What's your point again?

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

 

The only restriction the EU has put on us in terms of VAT is that there is a limit of VAT rates that can be applied. And once again we actually have an exemption to this and have more VAT rates then any other EU country.

 

Yes there is the issue that you don't charge VAT on sales to other EU countries as we don't tariffs but I'm pretty sure we were quite happy to sign up to that

 

Switching to VAT was a condition of joining the EEC. If we didn't accept it, we don't join. The public voted to join.

 

So the question, in response to Madas's assumptions, is, "Did the public know all the details of VAT at the time of voting? Did they know it could go up to 20% at any time should the wealthy fuck up? Were they aware that the Rees Moggs of the time were in a position to exploit this in order to expand their wealth, and therefore power, and possibly even set up the likes of Rees Mogg, in the first place?"

 

My experience suggests otherwise but I will certainly bow down to somebody with relevant experience.

 

Wasnt purchase tax at 33% when we moved to Vat? So a rate fall then...

 

And anyway increasing it to 20% has zilch to do with the EU

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The Miliband take down of Johnson encapsulates the Brexit debacle. Its been happening for years....

 

EUphobe "The EU forces us to do loads of things we don't want to and as a sovereign nation we shouldn't have to ?"

 

EUphile " like what ? "

 

Answers come there none.

 

VAT.

 

Didn't Osbourne take that up to the current 20%?

 

I'm not suggesting Boris is going to revoke it, it's just a valid answer to the question.

 

 

 

The only restriction the EU has put on us in terms of VAT is that there is a limit of VAT rates that can be applied. And once again we actually have an exemption to this and have more VAT rates then any other EU country.

 

Yes there is the issue that you don't charge VAT on sales to other EU countries as we don't tariffs but I'm pretty sure we were quite happy to sign up to that

 

Switching to VAT was a condition of joining the EEC. If we didn't accept it, we don't join. The public voted to join.

 

So the question, in response to Madas's assumptions, is, "Did the public know all the details of VAT at the time of voting? Did they know it could go up to 20% at any time should the wealthy fuck up? Were they aware that the Rees Moggs of the time were in a position to exploit this in order to expand their wealth, and therefore power, and possibly even set up the likes of Rees Mogg, in the first place?"

 

My experience suggests otherwise but I will certainly bow down to somebody with relevant experience.

 

Wasnt purchase tax at 33% when we moved to Vat? So a rate fall then...

 

And anyway increasing it to 20% has zilch to do with the EU

 

Not sure, what's your source?

 

And

 

I never said it did. The rate is irrelevant even if it is in line with the EU.

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