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UK Politics: Generation Tory


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:anguish: would be gutted to see the left sink to that sort of soundbite hammering fucking guff personally, but you're probably right tbh

 

Not making their front bench available for interview won't hurt anybody but them, though.  BBC will just empty chair them without a second thought.

Gotbto make the big song and dance about why and push that thebTories started it
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:anguish: would be gutted to see the left sink to that sort of soundbite hammering fucking guff personally, but you're probably right tbh

 

Not making their front bench available for interview won't hurt anybody but them, though.  BBC will just empty chair them without a second thought.

Gotbto make the big song and dance about why and push that thebTories started it

 

People won't care that the tories started it, they'll just not see any Labour faces or hear any Labour voices on the BBC and if they find out why a lot of them will think, "wey that's a bit petulent, what a bunch of fucking bairns"

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:anguish: would be gutted to see the left sink to that sort of soundbite hammering fucking guff personally, but you're probably right tbh

 

Not making their front bench available for interview won't hurt anybody but them, though.  BBC will just empty chair them without a second thought.

Gotbto make the big song and dance about why and push that thebTories started it

 

People won't care that the tories started it, they'll just not see any Labour faces or hear any Labour voices on the BBC and if they find out why a lot of them will think, "wey that's a bit petulent, what a bunch of fucking bairns"

Its just the front bench who wouldn't be on, like the Tories on Newsnight. Labour fucked up at the start by not making more of it.
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I know what you're saying, I just think that the reason Labour aren't cutting through is because they're not saying anything that anybody wants to hear.  As I've always said, elections are generally lost rather than won and I just don't see anybody being inspired by 2021 Labour, unfortunately.  It's not the messaging, it's just that they don't appear to have anything to say to anybody who isn't already a Labour voter.  That's the issue, not dirty tricks and media agendas.

 

(imo)

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:anguish: would be gutted to see the left sink to that sort of soundbite hammering fucking guff personally, but you're probably right tbh

 

Not making their front bench available for interview won't hurt anybody but them, though.  BBC will just empty chair them without a second thought.

Gotbto make the big song and dance about why and push that thebTories started it

 

People won't care that the tories started it, they'll just not see any Labour faces or hear any Labour voices on the BBC and if they find out why a lot of them will think, "wey that's a bit petulent, what a bunch of fucking bairns"

 

I know I repeat myself on this one loads but there really is a media/social media nob-on for ignoring what Labour say then claiming they haven't said anything, these days.

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It's the front bench that's important, though.  Neebody wants to know what Mike Amesbury thinks.

Its a short term thing in a long battle. They have to start working the media and let's be honest, neebody wants to know what Jonathan Ashford thinks, but constantly pointing out these points may be seen as carping but that repetition annoyingly works.
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I know what you're saying, I just think that the reason Labour aren't cutting through is because they're not saying anything that anybody wants to hear.  As I've always said, elections are generally lost rather than won and I just don't see anybody being inspired by 2021 Labour, unfortunately.  It's not the messaging, it's just that they don't appear to have anything to say to anybody who isn't already a Labour voter.  That's the issue, not dirty tricks and media agendas.

 

(imo)

Agree with that partly Miliband in the brexit debate was brilliant and more of that is needed and it can't just be down to Starmer, others have to step up, a Prescott style bruiser is needed for a start. But even then the agendas etc are necessary to get it out there.

 

Edit, and pointing out facts like who is doing the questioning and standing up for yourself is hardly dirty tricks.

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No, I mean dirty tricks on the part of the tories and the media :)  If Labour were genuinely struggling to get their point across about amazing new policies because of a skewed media or an active agenda against them, then I'd be more concerned about Andrew Neil and a perceived blue BBC.  I think people aren't interested in Labour because they're not very interesting at the minute.  If the Today programme cleared its schedule for a morning of puff pieces and easy-going interviews with Labour figures, they'd still struggle to change anybody's mind.

 

(again, imo)

 

You're absolutely right that they need a Prescott figure.

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As politics has become more partisan and ideological, it becomes much harder to change minds. There is a solid 35-40% block who would never vote Labour and the same who would never vote Conservative. In the past these blocks weren't quite so large and there were many more floating voters.

 

The trouble is that the left leaning block splinters far easier (as has always been the case) and there are many more parties to vote for to facilitate that.

 

It's easy for us to think, as mainly left leaning people in here, "Why the fuck are people still voting for this bunch who have fucked the pandemic so badly?" but if you lean right, who else would/could you vote for? If a staggeringly incompetent Labour government were in power, I can vote Green, I can vote LD, if I'm Scottish I can vote SNP. For those on the right, there is no realistic other place for those votes to leak, so they keep on voting Tory. It's that or completely abandon their deep rooted ideology towards the right, which becomes more deep rooted every day as they argue about "leftists" on Facebook.

 

I think Starmer sees this and is trying to fight on competence instead of ideology. This has worked to a point, with many of those floating voters, and Labour have beaten the Tory block basically down to that 35-40% base in current polling but that base is still enough to get 300 or so seats, worst case scenario. How Labour fight this I really haven't a clue.

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I know what you're saying, I just think that the reason Labour aren't cutting through is because they're not saying anything that anybody wants to hear.  As I've always said, elections are generally lost rather than won and I just don't see anybody being inspired by 2021 Labour, unfortunately.  It's not the messaging, it's just that they don't appear to have anything to say to anybody who isn't already a Labour voter.  That's the issue, not dirty tricks and media agendas.

 

(imo)

 

The Brexit effect is what won them them the last election, and as it surely unravels, we'll see people slowly returning to Labour.

I remember reading interviews with voters who had voted Tory for the first time, saying it turned their stomachs, but Brexit...

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As politics has become more partisan and ideological, it becomes much harder to change minds. There is a solid 35-40% block who would never vote Labour and the same who would never vote Conservative. In the past these blocks weren't quite so large and there were many more floating voters.

 

The trouble is that the left leaning block splinters far easier (as has always been the case) and there are many more parties to vote for to facilitate that.

 

It's easy for us to think, as mainly left leaning people in here, "Why the fuck are people still voting for this bunch who have fucked the pandemic so badly?" but if you lean right, who else would/could you vote for? If a staggeringly incompetent Labour government were in power, I can vote Green, I can vote LD, if I'm Scottish I can vote SNP. For those on the right, there is no realistic other place for those votes to leak, so they keep on voting Tory. It's that or completely abandon their deep rooted ideology towards the right, which becomes more deep rooted every day as they argue about "leftists" on Facebook.

 

I think Starmer sees this and is trying to fight on competence instead of ideology. This has worked to a point, with many of those floating voters, and Labour have beaten the Tory block basically down to that 35-40% base in current polling but that base is still enough to get 300 or so seats, worst case scenario. How Labour fight this I really haven't a clue.

 

That's exactly it.  Tories are impregnable, there is no other home for the right leaning vote.  That's why UKIP was so existential for them, why they had to deal with it one way or the other.  Like I said yesterday, without Scotland it's hopeless for Labour IMO - the tories are safe as long as the left is split like it is.

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As politics has become more partisan and ideological, it becomes much harder to change minds. There is a solid 35-40% block who would never vote Labour and the same who would never vote Conservative. In the past these blocks weren't quite so large and there were many more floating voters.

 

The trouble is that the left leaning block splinters far easier (as has always been the case) and there are many more parties to vote for to facilitate that.

 

It's easy for us to think, as mainly left leaning people in here, "Why the fuck are people still voting for this bunch who have fucked the pandemic so badly?" but if you lean right, who else would/could you vote for? If a staggeringly incompetent Labour government were in power, I can vote Green, I can vote LD, if I'm Scottish I can vote SNP. For those on the right, there is no realistic other place for those votes to leak, so they keep on voting Tory. It's that or completely abandon their deep rooted ideology towards the right, which becomes more deep rooted every day as they argue about "leftists" on Facebook.

 

I think Starmer sees this and is trying to fight on competence instead of ideology. This has worked to a point, with many of those floating voters, and Labour have beaten the Tory block basically down to that 35-40% base in current polling but that base is still enough to get 300 or so seats, worst case scenario. How Labour fight this I really haven't a clue.

 

That's exactly it.  Tories are impregnable, there is no other home for the right leaning vote.  That's why UKIP was so existential for them, why they had to deal with it one way or the other.  Like I said yesterday, without Scotland it's hopeless for Labour IMO - the tories are safe as long as the left is split like it is.

 

And do you want to know what the left think the answer is to this problem? We need Jeremy Corbyn to start his own party! :lol:

 

Really does make me feel like crying. :anguish:

 

Using left very loosely, but you know the types.

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As politics has become more partisan and ideological, it becomes much harder to change minds. There is a solid 35-40% block who would never vote Labour and the same who would never vote Conservative. In the past these blocks weren't quite so large and there were many more floating voters.

 

The trouble is that the left leaning block splinters far easier (as has always been the case) and there are many more parties to vote for to facilitate that.

 

It's easy for us to think, as mainly left leaning people in here, "Why the fuck are people still voting for this bunch who have fucked the pandemic so badly?" but if you lean right, who else would/could you vote for? If a staggeringly incompetent Labour government were in power, I can vote Green, I can vote LD, if I'm Scottish I can vote SNP. For those on the right, there is no realistic other place for those votes to leak, so they keep on voting Tory. It's that or completely abandon their deep rooted ideology towards the right, which becomes more deep rooted every day as they argue about "leftists" on Facebook.

 

I think Starmer sees this and is trying to fight on competence instead of ideology. This has worked to a point, with many of those floating voters, and Labour have beaten the Tory block basically down to that 35-40% base in current polling but that base is still enough to get 300 or so seats, worst case scenario. How Labour fight this I really haven't a clue.

 

Good post, this. 

 

I only dip in and out of politics.  But I can't help but engage or at least read some of the debates on social media.  The bit about the left splintering is spot on and seems even more obvious now.  As you have a lot of people who think Starmer is a traitor, a centrist, a tory etc.  So I guess Labour will be losing votes to the greens and Lib Dems, or people just not voting at all. 

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I'm an outsider now, living in Sweden, but I wonder what really animates political life in the United Kingdom? For years politics has been dominated by Brexit, and coming out of that I think Starmer perhaps feels like there's little long-term gain in taking a strident tone around coronavirus. How does that play in the face of so many deaths, does it only serve to harden divisions and things like anti-mask and anti-lockdown sentiment, and will the failures of the government be self-evident once the dust settles?

 

In the United States, civil rights and social justice campaigns, healthcare reform, environmental concerns, gun rights, and abortion rights all create clear and hostile divides but everyone knows what they're fighting for and what they want to achieve. The United Kingdom has a different history and demographic makeup, few people seem to perceive an existential threat to the NHS, and even environmental causes seem secondary. Under Corbyn the Labour Party refused to advocate for the UK as a European or multicultural country, they struggled to outline a vision for the future encompassing health, the environment, and jobs, and resorted to fairly old-school attacks on wealth inequality in the face of austerity, which kind of dissipated once Boris Johnson loosened the purse strings.

 

Neither the Conservatives or Labour offer a compelling vision for the future, but the Conservatives are offering the bulk of England a more comforting vision of the past. Social signalling is more important than policymaking. Labour like many other left-wing parties also struggle on the economy, where despite the tendency of right-wing parties to cut taxes while failing to reduce spending, it is the left who are routinely regarded as spendthrifts.

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As politics has become more partisan and ideological, it becomes much harder to change minds. There is a solid 35-40% block who would never vote Labour and the same who would never vote Conservative. In the past these blocks weren't quite so large and there were many more floating voters.

 

The trouble is that the left leaning block splinters far easier (as has always been the case) and there are many more parties to vote for to facilitate that.

 

It's easy for us to think, as mainly left leaning people in here, "Why the fuck are people still voting for this bunch who have fucked the pandemic so badly?" but if you lean right, who else would/could you vote for? If a staggeringly incompetent Labour government were in power, I can vote Green, I can vote LD, if I'm Scottish I can vote SNP. For those on the right, there is no realistic other place for those votes to leak, so they keep on voting Tory. It's that or completely abandon their deep rooted ideology towards the right, which becomes more deep rooted every day as they argue about "leftists" on Facebook.

 

I think Starmer sees this and is trying to fight on competence instead of ideology. This has worked to a point, with many of those floating voters, and Labour have beaten the Tory block basically down to that 35-40% base in current polling but that base is still enough to get 300 or so seats, worst case scenario. How Labour fight this I really haven't a clue.

 

Good post, this. 

 

I only dip in and out of politics.  But I can't help but engage or at least read some of the debates on social media.  The bit about the left splintering is spot on and seems even more obvious now.  As you have a lot of people who think Starmer is a traitor, a centrist, a tory etc.  So I guess Labour will be losing votes to the greens and Lib Dems, or people just not voting at all. 

 

Never more perfectly summed up.

 

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It's the ideal scenario but it's too late; the SNP are now the only major player that make it viable and as far as Westminster goes, they're as much of a one issue party as the Greens are.  I don't see anybody brave enough to go into coalition with them for fear of what happens to the union.

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  • Rich changed the title to UK Politics: Generation Tory

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