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UK Politics - Generation Tory


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8 hours ago, TaylorJ_01 said:

Bluf absolutely loves stuff going wrong, a bit like most Scottish people.

They gleefully destroyed us man. Not just politically, if even, but in the most destructive and deceitful of ways. Come on, they had us opening concentration camps ffs, so yes I'm going to love every moment of their hopeful demise. 

And I'll not be made to feel guilty about continued Tory domination by a class of people that took the best shot at power in a decade and fucking nuked it just so they could be in control again. That's not just Labour members either, the people that had given their votes to the party down the years but suddenly couldn't because of Corbyn. Especially after things like the Iraq war. Shameless fucking cunts. 

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7 hours ago, BlufPurdi said:

Just another loss he (and the centre) was deeply involved with that he gets to disown. 

I was thinking it more explained the lack of any policies, going in. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

How do you mean, sorry?

I guess he means, at least in part, what I've been saying for weeks now (and if he doesn't, sorry Ian :lol:, I don't intend to hitch your post to my views). People are voting Tory because rightly or wrongly they're being seen as strong and credible leaders and Labour are being fairly judged as vaccilating and directionless.

People can convince themselves all they like this is all happening on the back of poor and/or stupid people voting against their own interests because they're falling for lies pumped out by a sinister and sophisticated mind controlling state supporting media machine but honestly man, it seems to me that it's so much more straightforward than that.

Could you vote for them now in a Westminster election and honestly say you knew what they were going to do or that the country would be safe in their stewardship? I fucking couldn't. I am as left as you like but seriously lads, you don't need to keep looking for reasons and excuses for why people are flocking to the tories. Labour are more unelectable now then they were when Corbyn was at his most reviled; they've got literally nothing going for them and nobody knows where they stand on anything. People want the country to succeed, what do you realistically expect the outcome is ever going to be? The tories have always been seen as natural leaders and a safe pair of hands by people who aren't as interested as we are. 

This is, in my view, honestly not about turkeys voting for Christmas. People aren't delighted to be voting conservative despite the cartoonish faux vox-popping that persists in this thread (and forum). Bluf is similarly, I'm sure, not delighted to be voting SNP but at least he's got somewhere else to go. A vote for Labour at the minute is at absolute best a vote for the compete unknown, and is no guarantee of anything changing for the better for anybody. I can't blame anybody but Labour for this. @Super Duper Branko Strupar you're right that we're fucked, but feeling sorry for ourselves that the tories are resurgent and pinning the blame on the media and on credulous voters tripping over themselves to embrace The Market is misreading the mood of the electorate IMO and will achieve fuck all. The problem is deeper, in plain sight, and on our side. The right wing press were scared of what Corbyn could have achieved, it was obvious. That's not the case any more. They're not scared of Starmer and the shit that gets written about Labour is no longer so wide of the mark. It's Labour's job to change that. Starmer having an affair will no doubt be all over the media, but don't fool yourselves; that's not what's stopping people voting for him.

If you build it, somebody once said, they will come :lol: People look at Labour now and see absolutely nothing. Who can blame them? There's nothing to see :lol: This is now a long game, no mistake, but they've built nothing and it's no surprise to me that people are going elsewhere.

 

 

 

Edited by OpenC

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Posted (edited)

@Super Duper Branko Struparinteresting point about popular culture :thup: my recent rediscovery of Carter The Unstoppable Sex Machine got me mulling over a post about which bands or artists were most representative of social conditions in your country at certain times in your life; just couldn't think which thread to put it in :lol: Carter were never anything like successful enough to make a difference but are the ones I remember most from a time when my politics were starting to take shape properly; they painted an often really funny but still evocative picture of the violent and intolerant and have-vs-have-not underbelly of British life in the 90s that still comes back to me now when I listen to them. Don't give a fuck about vocal music these days so I'm out of the game, alas.

 

 

Edited by OpenC

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Posted (edited)

Saw something on twitter that said if this had been a GE, Tories would have lost 40+ seats and Labour would have gained approx 30. Thoughts?

On the plus side, a lad in my class at school was elected Labour mayor in Cambridge which is a staggering feat in a Tory heartland. Nik Johnson, a name to watch in the future.

 

 

Edited by UncleBingo

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Thick as mince :lol:

Honestly man :lol: who's idea was it to put him on the Tele ffs?

 

 

Edited by Klaus

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Posted (edited)

I don't know how much more obvious it needs to be made for folk, like.

 

** fair proportion of 2021 Labour voters confronted with resignation statement from front bench Labour MP saying the party has lost traditional working class support to well-meaning but fundamentally different younger voters **

"What a load of shite, we're best off without folk like that"

** fair proportion of 2021 Labour voters confronted with what appears to be a broken looking working class dude who's obviously voted Labour in the past and feels he can't any more **

"Thick as fuck, what an idiot"

 

I can't believe that people aren't seeing the issue here (and frankly I wonder how genuinely socialist some people are if they can't empathise with people who don't feel the exact same way as themselves), but to each their own

 

 

Edited by OpenC

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4 hours ago, OpenC said:

I guess he means, at least in part, what I've been saying for weeks now (and if he doesn't, sorry Ian :lol:, I don't intend to hitch your post to my views). People are voting Tory because rightly or wrongly they're being seen as strong and credible leaders and Labour are being fairly judged as vaccilating and directionless.

People can convince themselves all they like this is all happening on the back of poor and/or stupid people voting against their own interests because they're falling for lies pumped out by a sinister and sophisticated mind controlling state supporting media machine but honestly man, it seems to me that it's so much more straightforward than that.

Could you vote for them now in a Westminster election and honestly say you knew what they were going to do or that the country would be safe in their stewardship? I fucking couldn't. I am as left as you like but seriously lads, you don't need to keep looking for reasons and excuses for why people are flocking to the tories. Labour are more unelectable now then they were when Corbyn was at his most reviled; they've got literally nothing going for them and nobody knows where they stand on anything. People want the country to succeed, what do you realistically expect the outcome is ever going to be? The tories have always been seen as natural leaders and a safe pair of hands by people who aren't as interested as we are. 

This is, in my view, honestly not about turkeys voting for Christmas. People aren't delighted to be voting conservative despite the cartoonish faux vox-popping that persists in this thread (and forum). Bluf is similarly, I'm sure, not delighted to be voting SNP but at least he's got somewhere else to go. A vote for Labour at the minute is at absolute best a vote for the compete unknown, and is no guarantee of anything changing for the better for anybody. I can't blame anybody but Labour for this. @Super Duper Branko Strupar you're right that we're fucked, but feeling sorry for ourselves that the tories are resurgent and pinning the blame on the media and on credulous voters tripping over themselves to embrace The Market is misreading the mood of the electorate IMO and will achieve fuck all. The problem is deeper, in plain sight, and on our side. The right wing press were scared of what Corbyn could have achieved, it was obvious. That's not the case any more. They're not scared of Starmer and the shit that gets written about Labour is no longer so wide of the mark. It's Labour's job to change that. Starmer having an affair will no doubt be all over the media, but don't fool yourselves; that's not what's stopping people voting for him.

If you build it, somebody once said, they will come :lol: People look at Labour now and see absolutely nothing. Who can blame them? There's nothing to see :lol: This is now a long game, no mistake, but they've built nothing and it's no surprise to me that people are going elsewhere.

 

To be really fair about this, the Tories are far, far worse. In terms of organisation, vision, financial acumen and trustworthiness.

It doesn't make sense that you would find a slightly lopsided progressive party worse than a mendacious and extremist Tory one.

Sorry, mate. That's nonsense.

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1 hour ago, Wullie said:

 

You want to get rid of Labour because the Tories gave been in government for 11 years and 'wrecked everything' but it was Labour who did it.

Blair was right. 'Education, education, education'.

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It's not nonsense if you don't see them as mendacious though. I do, you do. Millions clearly don't, and if you'd prefer to keep putting it down to dirty tricks then that's up to you. I think it's monumentally naive.

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7 minutes ago, OpenC said:

I don't know how much more obvious it needs to be made for folk, like.

 

** fair proportion of 2021 Labour voters confronted with resignation statement from front bench Labour MP saying the party has lost traditional working class support to well-meaning but fundamentally different younger voters **

"What a load of shite, we're best off without folk like that"

** fair proportion of 2021 Labour voters confronted with what appears to be a broken looking working class dude who's obviously voted Labour in the past and feels he can't any more **

"Thick as fuck, what an idiot"

 

I can't believe that people aren't seeing the issue here, but to each their own

To be fair, honesty is always the best way, and there is no other way to look at an adult expressing such ridiculous words. Regardless of political persuasion, this is batshit bonkers. Trumpesque.

This is an adult human, presumably with an education, with access to the same factual information as any of us, saying that a party that hasn't weilded any power since 2009, has 'wrecked' Hartlepool.

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Posted (edited)

But doesn't feel like Labour will achieve anything different despite clearly feeling they should be his party of choice

He's just a lad from Hartlepool, so whose failure is that?

People are falling over themselves to demonise and ridicule the exact people who need to be won back to the cause, it's fucking ridiculous man

 

 

 

Edited by OpenC

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The point, as you well know, is that he's just voted in the party who closed the court and reduced the hospital services.

I'd be interested to know just how "broken" this "working class" chap is. I bet he owns his own home, and is clearly too old to really be that bothered about the local job market. My dad's a Tory voter in Hartlepool too, he lives in a 3 storey, 5 bedroom house and will soon retire with a big pension. Far from being deprived, these people just don't want the gravy train to stop.

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9 minutes ago, OpenC said:

But doesn't feel like Labour will achieve anything different

Whose failure is that?

 

 

Don't worry, a few more zinger policies like the bonds one and Labour will be picking up votes again! :lol:

Seems like Labour centre / right is in complete denial of why they are not popular with the electorate. Tory policy on immigration control, border control etc. gives their nationalist base a huge political erection. So big they look the other way at lobbying, cronyism and corruption. Labour need to get some big policies that resonate large with the public and get pushing for it. Make it clear what supporting them means and have the public wanting it. If you stand for nothing then you can't be surprised nobody is voting for you.

 

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Labour missed a massive trick with Brexit -admittedly in hindsight. Businesses and employers by and large coming out and talking about protecting jobs and pensions almost universally bar a few notable exceptions and instead of playing up the facts re: immigration law not being applied by government - they could have projected themselves as the party of both business and the working man beyond the unions. Whether that would have mitigated the cult of personality and client print media to the required extent is hard to say but the blood letting and in-fighting re: AS and cults of personality within Labour itself have taken up far too much bandwidth. The tories for their myriad evils/faults are quite at ease cannibalising dangerous positions and co-opting them and it keeps them looking stable at surface level. Brexit as an issue has gone nowhere and the union is under grave threat - as you can only deny truths and fudge perceptions of mandate for so long. The greater successes for Labour in mayoral stakes in interesting. Until reform happens or parties can coalesce to negate FPTP we’re fucked. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Wullie said:

The point, as you well know, is that he's just voted in the party who closed the court and reduced the hospital services.

I'd be interested to know just how "broken" this "working class" chap is. I bet he owns his own home. My dad's a Tory voter in Hartlepool too, he lives in a 3 storey, 5 bedroom house and will soon retire with a big pension. Far from being deprived, these people just don't want the gravy train to stop.

I know what the point is, of course, aye :thup:

Ultimately you might well be right about him being just an affluent old fella who wanted on the telly. I just think that - assuming he was legit in his "I should probably have voted Labour" schtick, then rather than ridiculing these people we should be seeing them as a symptom of the left's malaise. The difference between people like him and people who are laughing at him or angry with him is the reason we keep losing

 

 

Edited by OpenC

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