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UK Politics: Generation Tory


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19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Best take I've heard so far is from a colleague of my mam's telling her that the fuel crisis is 'the oil companies trying to force us to get electric cars'

 

You ever been so struck by a level of stupidity that it literally takes your breath away? :lol:

They’ll be after our leccy meters next!

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33 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just as an adage to that, I get the impression that Starmer and co think they can thread the eye of the needle by being positionless and therefore being perceived as impartial and neutral. When imo that impartiality is a position in itself, is being perceived as such and has resulted in...

 

image.thumb.png.ce3c22facc02c0a2b7a983bc4a209b43.png

 

Whilst I agree, it's like we're going to need an almost perverse situation that you're going need things to get so incredibad that it'll force their hand (and that of focus group attendees who once voted Labour under Blair) to actually see some big ticket items might actually be desirable. Not that I have that much hope it'd make a difference. Even though people hate kids there's loads of ways you could frame improving and reducing the cost of childcare for example which would be relatively popular with most.

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3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Absolutely they were, does that not make you wonder why liberals (both within the party and the public) attacked them at the time as pie-in-the-sky and they're now throwing them out then?

 

Don't get me wrong like, Corbyn was an easy target, but he was also a convenient one for anyone who was going to feel those policies in their pockets.

 


I think it’s mainly because left wing = bad in the eyes of the media and the establishment. And people like Starmer aren’t actually in politics to make life better for people. They believe the old ways about being centrist to win. Even the Labour staff were out to sabotage it. 
 

Also it’s possible that they were communicated wrongly in the actual campaign as opposed to the poll situation. 
 

What was your conclusion? 

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2 minutes ago, Disco said:

 

Whilst I agree, it's like we're going to need an almost perverse situation that you're going need things to get so incredibad that it'll force their hand (and that of focus group attendees who once voted Labour under Blair) to actually see some big ticket items might actually be desirable. Not that I have that much hope it'd make a difference. Even though people hate kids there's loads of ways you could frame improving and reducing the cost of childcare for example which would be relatively popular with most.


If you’re posting this, there’s definitely hope :lol:

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29 minutes ago, Thomson Mouse said:


interesting take :lol: 

 

One of the replies:

 

Quote

Sort of like a giant Scalextric Kermit? How's your Brexit going? For ordinary citizens it's looking grim. Very grim.

 

:lol:

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6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:


I think it’s mainly because left wing = bad in the eyes of the media and the establishment. And people like Starmer aren’t actually in politics to make life better for people. They believe the old ways about being centrist to win. Even the Labour staff were out to sabotage it. 
 

Also it’s possible that they were communicated wrongly in the actual campaign as opposed to the poll situation. 
 

What was your conclusion? 

 

Based on everything I've read about and heard from the man I disagree with this point.

 

Why do you think he's in it?

 

And just to make my feelings clear on the breaking his leadership pledges thing I'm deeply uneasy with it. I accept a certain amount of "need to get/be in power to actually do anything" but he's pushing my patience with it.

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8 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:


If you’re posting this, there’s definitely hope :lol:

 

Labour winning by default seems moderately possible tbf although the press aren't campaigning against them/their policies yet; whether they'd have the gumption to do anything positive should they win however. Not so promising.

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8 minutes ago, Disco said:

 

Labour winning by default seems moderately possible tbf although the press aren't campaigning against them/their policies yet; whether they'd have the gumption to do anything positive should they win however. Not so promising.

 

That's where I'm still undecided. There's an argument that in a similar way to breaking some pledges to get in power he's playing the game of appearing boring/inoffensive and not pissing off the establishment as a way to get into government. And once there that's when you can do stuff. Dangerous game mind if you do anything too radical that you didn't campaign on in terms of the electorate feeling duped.

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1 hour ago, Cf said:

 

That's where I'm still undecided. There's an argument that in a similar way to breaking some pledges to get in power he's playing the game of appearing boring/inoffensive and not pissing off the establishment as a way to get into government. And once there that's when you can do stuff. Dangerous game mind if you do anything too radical that you didn't campaign on in terms of the electorate feeling duped.

 

Don't get me wrong there'd be less needlessly vindictive stuff and services would likely improve a little bit as a result but as for reversing some of the draconian things that the Tories have brought in (and often Labour have barely opposed) and putting blocks in place to it happening in the future I'm less sure especially as the press would absolutely monster them on being too soft on the usual's.

 

Agree with your previous post btw. I think he's in it for the right reasons he's just easily led and is being done so by voices I'd prefer he isn't. My lasses Dad has met him a couple of times pre-leadership and said he was really impressed with him as a person.

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4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Just as an adage to that, I get the impression that Starmer and co think they can thread the eye of the needle by being positionless and therefore being perceived as impartial and neutral. When imo that impartiality is a position in itself, is being perceived as such and has resulted in...

 

image.thumb.png.ce3c22facc02c0a2b7a983bc4a209b43.png

 

Slightly chuckled to myself when I saw "twat" :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

Private Eye absolutely essential reading in these times. The only publication you can trust atm. 

 

Absolutely, no agenda other than pursuit of truth and exposing corruption. Love Ian Hislop too. 

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I guess you can add getting sucked off in your office to the list of “Things any normal cunt would be sacked for that don’t seem to matter when you’re a cabinet minister”.

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2 hours ago, Sima said:

I guess you can add getting sucked off in your office to the list of “Things any normal cunt would be sacked for that don’t seem to matter when you’re a cabinet minister”.

 

An MP had to resign for only watching porn at work just weeks ago :lol: 

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19 hours ago, Disco said:

 

Whilst I agree, it's like we're going to need an almost perverse situation that you're going need things to get so incredibad that it'll force their hand (and that of focus group attendees who once voted Labour under Blair) to actually see some big ticket items might actually be desirable. Not that I have that much hope it'd make a difference. Even though people hate kids there's loads of ways you could frame improving and reducing the cost of childcare for example which would be relatively popular with most.

 

I think we might have spoken about this a couple of years ago. Accelerationism's looked down on because it involves people suffering and bad situations are ripe for facist propaganda, but I do think it's also sometimes necessary in order for change to happen.

 

I'm with you on Labour, I think it's going to need to get to the point where things are so bad that any plausible deniability they have about helping people goes out the window and it forces their hand to lie about having big ticket proposals. I accept the argument that parties shouldn't put out policies until nearer election time, but you don't need to have policies in place to make a case for what you believe is right based on what's going on here and now. Labour shouldn't need a policy position to back the unions. But that's the problem with this type of politics, it doesn't hold a fixed a political position on anything that's objectively right or wrong so it triangulates itself into nothingness.  

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19 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:


I think it’s mainly because left wing = bad in the eyes of the media and the establishment. And people like Starmer aren’t actually in politics to make life better for people. They believe the old ways about being centrist to win. Even the Labour staff were out to sabotage it. 
 

Also it’s possible that they were communicated wrongly in the actual campaign as opposed to the poll situation. 
 

What was your conclusion? 

 

Mine was more that the liberal media (especially The Guardian), commentators, and people I know who'd lead me to believe they were left wing with everything they'd said up until 2015 and who I was 'not letting perfect be the enemy of better' in a coalition with suddenly went masks off (I don't like that expression but I can't think of a better one here)

 

It was clear that the same sentiments that I'd heard time and again about how 'it's not perfect, but we're all in this together so we should support Blair/Brown/Milliband' wasn't going to be reciprocated now that the things they'd lead me to believe they stood for were actually on the table.

 

I'll not bleat on about it any more than already have (part of it is me continuing to indulge in what's left of the cathersis of moaning about it tbh :lol:), but that was a big eye-opening moment for me and imo a lot people, who now view the right wing of Labour as an opposition to beat, rather than any kind of ally to coalesce with. I think the more people who come to the same conclusion, either now or later, the better. 

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13 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Mine was more that the liberal media (especially The Guardian), commentators, and people I know who'd lead me to believe they were left wing with everything they'd said up until 2015 and who I was 'not letting perfect be the enemy of better' in a coalition with suddenly went masks off (I don't like that expression but I can't think of a better one here)

 

It was clear that the same sentiments that I'd heard time and again about how 'it's not perfect, but we're all in this together so we should support Blair/Brown/Milliband' wasn't going to be reciprocated now that the things they'd lead me to believe they stood for were actually on the table.

 

I'll not bleat on about it any more than already have (part of it is me continuing to indulge in what's left of the cathersis of moaning about it tbh :lol:), but that was a big eye-opening moment for me and imo a lot people, who now view the right wing of Labour as an opposition to beat, rather than any kind of ally to coalesce with. I think the more people who come to the same conclusion, either now or later, the better. 

I used to work at Guardian HO. Loads of lovely people there but plenty of cunts in high places.

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