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2 minutes ago, BlufPurdi said:

  

 

 

I'm always apologising for talking too much or making no sense. That's part of the pain, I cringe like fuck later worrying about why I said sorry so many times. :lol:

 

 

No don't cringe.......if it entertained you it was worth it.

 

 

FFS look at my history on here.

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6 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

 I doubt it's going to be going on like this for the better part of a decade. No offense, but it just seems to me that some people aren't really taking this in perspective. We are around for a deadly pandemic, the most disastrous global one in 100 years. Not taking into account that this could well be a dry run for an even worse future spillover event, this has been 18 months of our lives. 

 

We are already seeing crucial ecosystems collapse before our very eyes. Frankly I think we are going to have to learn to adapt to these things, because there are other major shit storms on the horizon. That includes learning how to work together better, because a lot of our populations have done a really shitty job.

 

 

 

Perhaps, but I’d say it works both ways and there’s a middle ground to be met. It’s seems like some people act like covid is irrelevant now, especially post-vaccine, whereas others are ignoring the other issues related to covid or other causes of death and seem to be only satisfied when nobody dies of covid. 
 

It’s a pandemic, we should have a duty to protect the vulnerable and we’ve done that very well over 18 months, which has resulted in many livelihoods being ruined. In the short term many sacrifices were worthwhile, but when there’s been a vaccine rollout we can now accept both that we should be allowed to have fun now and that people will sadly still die, if at a far more ‘acceptable’ level. 
 

Since we’ve opened up it’s been great to see people enjoying themselves in public again, meeting new people, playing and watching sport, going out, going on holiday etc. I also can’t take the thought of this going again. 

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3 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Perhaps, but I’d say it works both ways and there’s a middle ground to be met. It’s seems like some people act like covid is irrelevant now, especially post-vaccine, whereas others are ignoring the other issues related to covid or other causes of death and seem to be only satisfied when nobody dies of covid. 
 

It’s a pandemic, we should have a duty to protect the vulnerable and we’ve done that very well over 18 months, which has resulted in many livelihoods being ruined. In the short term many sacrifices were worthwhile, but when there’s been a vaccine rollout we can now accept both that we should be allowed to have fun now and that people will sadly still die, if at a far more ‘acceptable’ level. 
 

Since we’ve opened up it’s been great to see people enjoying themselves in public again, meeting new people, playing and watching sport, going out, going on holiday etc. I also can’t take the thought of this going again. 

...as a variant that is as infectious as chickenpox wreaks havoc. As long as we don't get near herd anything looking like herd immunity, it's giving ample chance for this virus to continue to throw out bad copies at an alarming rate, paving the way for not only potential variants that adapt in terms of transmissibility, but one like the mu variantr that may possibly elude antibodies of those vaccinated. I am profoundly pissed off that I may have to pay the price at some point because crowds  of morlocks who refuse to get vaccinated, or wear masks possibly spread their shit to the rest of us.

 

As for people losing livelihoods, we best get used to the idea that the pandemic and post-pandemic world will likely be a series of shit storms that put a strain on civilization like few other times in human history. The world that my nephews will inhabit when I am gone is looking pretty grim, considering that people can't simply pull together for this. I am 46, lost a fiancee last year, and have lost 18 months as I am not getting any younger. Two of my big film projects were put on the shelf because we can't finish the production part. The Oman film is at a dead end because we can't finish the arcs of the subjects. Overall, it's looking fairly grim. No more pandemic unemployment for me. However, I also understand this is an earth shaking event, and know that I will figure it out, and am at peace with the situation. I'd have a lot more faith in the future if others showed that willingness to adapt to changing circumstances, because going back to normal is a pretty bad idea given the cliff that humanity is speeding toward. This is a great opportunity for people to change paradigms, but I am skeptical that the opportunity will be taken.

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34 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I know that any stable society needs a functioning healthcare system, but I can't help but dread the idea of going back into a lockdown. Makes it all feel pointless.

 

We should all dread it, it would be absolutely diabolical. 

 

Another lockdown would be a catastrophic failure, of the vaccine programme, of government and of the British population. Anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine who so much as tuts about another lockdown needs a fucking smack in the mouth. These people should be put in the stocks for public humiliation.

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2 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

We should all dread it, it would be absolutely diabolical. 

 

Another lockdown would be a catastrophic failure, of the vaccine programme, of government and of the British population. Anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine who so much as tuts about another lockdown needs a fucking smack in the mouth. These people should be put in the stocks for public humiliation.

 

Agreed. Makes my own personal resentment of anti vaxxers only grow ever more. It's why I really don't mind either way regarding vaccine passports; shut out the braindead and/or force them to get it. It's idiocy and selfishness of the cuntiest order to not.

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1 hour ago, BlufPurdi said:

I find that a dangerous option, the talkative ones will say no, then start going on about what a bloody day they've had. I've gone for a sort of sarcastic sounding alrighty, matched with an intense walking speed so there's no stopping me, unless going the same direction but then I can make it clear I've got to go. It's a whole body thing. :shifty: 

That's one thing about 'these times', you can no longer assume the other person will respond with the obligatory "Aye not bad. Yersel?"

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1 hour ago, St. Maximin said:

Fair, but the extent we need to keep making sacrifices to protect the vulnerable depends how long this goes on for. Hypothetically speaking of course but I wouldn’t be happy to go several years of constantly holding back from chatting people up to protect the vulnerable, as if my freedoms and priorities aren’t important. This is especially so when you factor in that transmissible viruses (tragically) do kill the vulnerable and we’ve always accepted that’s an unfortunate fact of life. And I’m not for one minute saying the lives of the elderly don’t matter but at the same time the younger generations can’t go on and on living with restricted freedoms and opportunities to protect people who likely did have those at their age. As I said this is hypothetical and presumably this pandemic won’t last forever…

 

 

 

Just stop chatting up the vulnerable you gold digging whore.

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I feel like the threat of an October lockdown is linked with vaccinating children. Are they talking about just closing schools? What about hospitality, mass gatherings, workplaces etc? If its just schools its interesting timing given the talk about vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds. I have to say this would be a massive kick in the teeth. How are people still on the fence about the vaccine going to be convinced its worth taking if we end up in another bloody lockdown when nearly 90% of adults are double jabbed as expected next month? This would be a disaster. 

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We're at 62% of the population vaccinated with only 72% having had a first dose. And the growth of that first dose figure has really slowed over the last couple of months. 

 

I think calling our vaccine programme a success at this point is turning into a bit of a myth. 

 

It started well, sure. We got going early and as time went on they massively ramped up supply. No complaints there. But they've failed to see it through. It's a half complete job. 

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Part of the reason for the slowing of the vaccine uptake has to surely be the government's message of "this is all over" when they removed all restrictions in June. 

 

When even basic things such as face masks in a shop were removed you knew they'd just gone fuck it. 

 

As recently as yesterday in the commons it was full and every opposition MP wore a face mask. I believe Gove of all people was the only Tory to do so. They don't give a fuck but will blame us when a new lockdown happens. 

 

 

Edited by Cf

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7 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

...as a variant that is as infectious as chickenpox wreaks havoc. As long as we don't get near herd anything looking like herd immunity, it's giving ample chance for this virus to continue to throw out bad copies at an alarming rate, paving the way for not only potential variants that adapt in terms of transmissibility, but one like the mu variantr that may possibly elude antibodies of those vaccinated. I am profoundly pissed off that I may have to pay the price at some point because crowds  of morlocks who refuse to get vaccinated, or wear masks possibly spread their shit to the rest of us.

 

As for people losing livelihoods, we best get used to the idea that the pandemic and post-pandemic world will likely be a series of shit storms that put a strain on civilization like few other times in human history. The world that my nephews will inhabit when I am gone is looking pretty grim, considering that people can't simply pull together for this. I am 46, lost a fiancee last year, and have lost 18 months as I am not getting any younger. Two of my big film projects were put on the shelf because we can't finish the production part. The Oman film is at a dead end because we can't finish the arcs of the subjects. Overall, it's looking fairly grim. No more pandemic unemployment for me. However, I also understand this is an earth shaking event, and know that I will figure it out, and am at peace with the situation. I'd have a lot more faith in the future if others showed that willingness to adapt to changing circumstances, because going back to normal is a pretty bad idea given the cliff that humanity is speeding toward. This is a great opportunity for people to change paradigms, but I am skeptical that the opportunity will be taken.

Thing is while I know next to nothing about viruses, everyone tells me there is always the possibility of new variants even if we are increasing the chances. It’s a balancing act I feel where we are prepared for this (and clearly the experts study these things thoroughly) while acting proportionate. Nobody seems to be telling me a new variant will come soon that will both spread much faster and completely evade vaccines and we also can’t keep living in fear and removing ourselves from a normal way to live, be it this current pandemic or a future one. I agree on the vaccinations and masks. 
 

This pandemic involves a virus that spreads fast but does not significantly harm most people, so I think that’s partly why a lot of people find it increasingly frustrating putting their lives on hold to protect the vulnerable the longer this goes on. As selfish as that sounds, we can’t ignore the facts transmissible viruses sadly do kill the vulnerable and that we have our own lives to live. I am all for continuing doing my bit especially into the winter - get vaccinated, wear masks in crowds, test, sanitise, avoid certain spaces if necessary etc. It’s the constant threat of putting life on hold I can’t deal with. Sorry to hear about what  has happened to you - those are indeed tough to take and I really hope things don’t continue that way for us. 

 

 

Edited by St. Maximin

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"Learn to live with it" as an abstract phrase would appear to be accurate enough. Nobody has a crystal ball, but it seems like this isn't going away soon. If it isn't then we will need to "live with it" as best we can- and because it's a shitty thing with no upside, that will inevitably mean that a compromise has to be made somewhere which will upset some or a lot of people. I think the discussion over the last few pages illustrates this very neatly. Concerns have been eloquently expressed (which are all valid by the way- there are no right or wrong answers) about the impacts on society of the health system crashing and also about the impact of continued lockdowns on the economic and mental/social well-being of the population as a whole.

 

Personally, I pinned my hopes on the vaccine getting us to a point where we could live relatively freely without overwhelming the NHS and therefore arrive at a situation where the cure (potential further lockdowns) is worse than the disease itself. I'll be honest, the thought of further lockdowns absolutely fucking petrifies me. And I would class myself as being one of those who are fortunate enough to not have been affected as badly as others (can work from home, government keyworker so job relatively secure, wife and kids so no urgent need to go out and "meet someone".) But I also suffer badly from depression and anxiety and last winter I was on the edge and I dread to think about the impact a repeat would have on me. But at the same time if the hospitals go down with this then we are completely fucked. I've had my vaccines and would encourage others to do the same but the idea of mandatory vaccines seems dystopian and frankly a bit hideous.

 

So this brings me back to the phrase "learn to live with it" which seems to be used currently as a shorthand for "let people die and cull the weak." Personally I think it would be more useful to see this phrase framed roughly as "what sacrifices are we as a society prepared to make to this virus?" Because (unless the vaccine does pull us out of the shit or this magically disappears) we can't make none, that's impossible. What is the solution? Do we become more seasonal in that we party in the summer and lock ourselves away in the winter when it's at its worst? Do we schedule regular firebreakers throughout the year that people can plan around and prepare for (a bit like a shutdown at a car factory)? Do we plan ahead now and create a "National Covid Service" of medical professionals who are trained primarily to deal with respiratory illness in order to allow society to reopen and take the covid burden off the NHS? If so then presumably taxes will have to go up to fund it so there will be less money to spend on other things and that's the compromise society makes. And if it all goes away in a couple of years then it was a waste of resource used in training everyone up for it.

 

I don't know what the answer is (obviously) and I'm sure you've all got better ideas than what I have written above but I suppose it's just really I'm sick of seeing "learn to live with it" framed in such a polarising way. At the minute it just seems to be creating two sides with an "us and them" mentality and a whole lot of division. Which wouldn't be like this government of course would it 😉 but that's a whole different story of course.

 

Tl;dr- I wrote a load of shite and posted it on the internet. There is no actual conclusion to it but it was cathartic to get it off my chest.

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Great post. 
 

I think one of the main problems is the unbalanced way that it affects everyone and the fact that it isn’t in proportion to the risk. So people who aren’t at risk are massively affected by lockdowns. It’s hard to not resent it when you’ve given up 2 years to protect people, how much more can you give up? 
 

I know everyone has lost something in these times, and even someone settled with a wife and family (for example) had missed out on stuff. Personally as a single person who has gone from being 37 to nearly 40 without the chance to socialise and meet anyone, it has been absolutely horrible. Also because that status means you might be more likely to rely on travel and mixing with strangers to make life worth living. Of course this is a privileged position in itself, since I don’t really worry about actually dying. 
 

Even the mention of another lockdown absolutely wrecks my mental state. And even when we’re living ‘freely’ in the current period, so much has gone out of life. And nobody seems to acknowledge how much trauma people have been through or what help they might need, everything is judged by whether we’re open or locked down. Even when we’re open, it’s obvious that many people don’t have the enthusiasm or confidence to take advantage of it. 
 

Possibly the way to go is move to a hut in the highlands or something, where you can rely on being able to go for a walk, read a book and just not think about it. 

 

 

Edited by AyeDubbleYoo

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So I'm double vaccinated, I still wear a mask in public places, I still wash my hands far more than I really should have to, I still give people plenty of "space", but I "think" I caught Covid from a friend who I golf with. It's not like we share clubs or anything, but I guess we didn't stand 2 metres apart for the entire round.

 

So where does "learn to live with it" not fit in there? It's not going away is it, there's going to be the risk for every single person. I'm not going to stop playing golf in case that's where I catch it again. People can only do so much, and I refuse to give my life up because some people just don't want to get vaccinated.

 

 

 

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I've been okay with previous lockdowns. I've followed all the rules. Double jabbed. Still wear a mask when I feel it's necessary. Feeling pretty good about things.

 

But when I read that last night about another possible lockdown, my heart fucking sank. And I know they're saying it might only be for 2 weeks, but we've heard that bluster before, and before you know it those 2 weeks have morphed into a total winter lockdown until March. We've been hoping that this vaccine was going to be our way out of it, and you'd like to think when 44 million people have been double jabbed that we should be well on the way on the road to recovery by now. But the fact that, 18 months down the line, and with all those vaccinations having been dished out, we're still faced with the threat of lockdowns, you have to wonder when will it fucking end? Because I honestly don't think it will. This seems like life now. The enjoyment and spontaneity of living has disappeared. We're constantly looking over our shoulders waiting for the next variant to come along and fuck things up.

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10 hours ago, St. Maximin said:

Perhaps, but I’d say it works both ways and there’s a middle ground to be met. It’s seems like some people act like covid is irrelevant now, especially post-vaccine, whereas others are ignoring the other issues related to covid or other causes of death and seem to be only satisfied when nobody dies of covid. 
 

It’s a pandemic, we should have a duty to protect the vulnerable and we’ve done that very well over 18 months, which has resulted in many livelihoods being ruined. In the short term many sacrifices were worthwhile, but when there’s been a vaccine rollout we can now accept both that we should be allowed to have fun now and that people will sadly still die, if at a far more ‘acceptable’ level. 
 

Since we’ve opened up it’s been great to see people enjoying themselves in public again, meeting new people, playing and watching sport, going out, going on holiday etc. I also can’t take the thought of this going again. 

 

Eh?  130,000 people died

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The lockdowns never really bothered me. The 1st one was a bit weird when we were all essentially under house arrest but the subsequent ones were fairly straightforward, at least to me.

 

I don't think Boris will call for another full on lockdown unless the NHS is totally overwhelmed and morgues can't cope, ie only when things become utterly catastrophic. What he should have done, as mentioned above, is kept the mask wearing, the hand washing, the sanitising, the social distancing where possible and then supported the NHS, the economy and the schools etc etc. Instead, it kinda feels like were back to last summer - still arguing, still in denial, still selfish.

 

Boris will no doubt make more errors in judgement, delay decisions by weeks and hand even more money to the already rich and nothing will change.

 

Probably the thing that scares me most is long covid. Im asthmatic and really dont need anything fucking with my lungs. Remember that film 'Awakenings' with De Nero and Robin Williams? The disease that De Nero had has been linked to the spanish flu outbreaks and caused half a million deaths itself. While its cause is still debatable, i really hope long covid isnt going to be something similar where even years after, random syndromes and diseases appear and cause misery.

 

And then theres the prospect of a more deadly variant appearing....

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7 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

The lockdowns never really bothered me. The 1st one was a bit weird when we were all essentially under house arrest but the subsequent ones were fairly straightforward, at least to me.

 

I don't think Boris will call for another full on lockdown unless the NHS is totally overwhelmed and morgues can't cope, ie only when things become utterly catastrophic. What he should have done, as mentioned above, is kept the mask wearing, the hand washing, the sanitising, the social distancing where possible and then supported the NHS, the economy and the schools etc etc. Instead, it kinda feels like were back to last summer - still arguing, still in denial, still selfish.

 

Boris will no doubt make more errors in judgement, delay decisions by weeks and hand even more money to the already rich and nothing will change.

 

Probably the thing that scares me most is long covid. Im asthmatic and really dont need anything fucking with my lungs. Remember that film 'Awakenings' with De Nero and Robin Williams? The disease that De Nero had has been linked to the spanish flu outbreaks and caused half a million deaths itself. While its cause is still debatable, i really hope long covid isnt going to be something similar where even years after, random syndromes and diseases appear and cause misery.

 

And then theres the prospect of a more deadly variant appearing....

 

I'm asthmatic too, but my breathing hasn't really been impacted that much by covid so far. Maybe I've just been lucky. Just this stupid head fog I want rid of.

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1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Great post. 
 

I think one of the main problems is the unbalanced way that it affects everyone and the fact that it isn’t in proportion to the risk. So people who aren’t at risk are massively affected by lockdowns. It’s hard to not resent it when you’ve given up 2 years to protect people, how much more can you give up? 
 

I know everyone has lost something in these times, and even someone settled with a wife and family (for example) had missed out on stuff. Personally as a single person who has gone from being 37 to nearly 40 without the chance to socialise and meet anyone, it has been absolutely horrible. Also because that status means you might be more likely to rely on travel and mixing with strangers to make life worth living. Of course this is a privileged position in itself, since I don’t really worry about actually dying. 
 

Even the mention of another lockdown absolutely wrecks my mental state. And even when we’re living ‘freely’ in the current period, so much has gone out of life. And nobody seems to acknowledge how much trauma people have been through or what help they might need, everything is judged by whether we’re open or locked down. Even when we’re open, it’s obvious that many people don’t have the enthusiasm or confidence to take advantage of it. 
 

Possibly the way to go is move to a hut in the highlands or something, where you can rely on being able to go for a walk, read a book and just not think about it. 

 

 

 

You have any access to a dog, through friends or family etc? 

 

Honestly walking a dog daily got me through the last lockdown so much. Great to just get out for a walk and meet and interact with so many people instead of being locked away. If you enjoy random encounters and small talk like you say I think it would be perfect. 

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49 minutes ago, loki679 said:

 

Eh?  130,000 people died

A lot of that is due to the government. I am talking about what the public have been doing, which is by and large an excellent job. This is indicated by the significant decline in cases this year over lockdown. 
 

Yes we have people acting very irresponsibly but this is a very small proportion that just happen to be talked about more. Seeing people staying at home is hardly newsworthy after all. The public have done an excellent job in behaving overall, often in very challenging circumstances. The ‘selfish nation’ comments we’ve seen are completely unjustified. 

 

 

Edited by St. Maximin

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Just now, RodneyCisse said:

What’s actually threatening lockdown though? 
 

Is it unjabbed people being hospitalised, if it is then it’s their own fault surely?


It might be their own fault but it still fills hospitals and stops other treatment. 
 

16 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

You have any access to a dog, through friends or family etc? 

 

Honestly walking a dog daily got me through the last lockdown so much. Great to just get out for a walk and meet and interact with so many people instead of being locked away. If you enjoy random encounters and small talk like you say I think it would be perfect. 

 

Had thought about a lockdown dog during the first 3, but thought it was too late now. Might reconsider. 

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