Is the term ‘gammon’, racist?

[Big Geordie]

I use this quite often when arguing with bigots and racists on social media. Many take exception and accuse of of being what I’m calling them! Is it racist though?

 

Charles Dickens apparently first came up with the term and since then, it’s become used to describe people of a certain age, who have a particular look and appearance.

 

 

[Papavasiliou]

No

[Darth Crooks]

No but it’s intended as a pejorative so I guess people construe offence on that basis. It summarises an archetype - is it that much different to chav or hipster? I’d argue it serves that function.

[Rafalove]

I mean there’s a race element with in it, gammon is in part bass on political beliefs but also the colour of skin.

[Slim]

Normally the only people who say its racist are racist.

 

Not saying you are...you might be i dunno 🤷 

[Darth Crooks]

10 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

I mean there’s a race element with in it, gammon is in part bass on political beliefs but also the colour of skin.

Has very little to do with being white - more the idea of high anger/ high blood pressure I’d guess or perhaps the the semantics of meat headedness. Fuck knows what dickens meant.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It does have a racial element, being targeted against older white men.

 

I don't like it personally since it enforces the idea that there's a group of people that can't be reached by reasonable arguments. 

 

It's not really implying the superiority or inferiority of any ethnic group, so if it is racist it's a pretty mild form.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

There's no race element to it what so ever. It's more of a comment on someone's utter fume and poor health. Probably doing them a favour tbh. If you're identified as Gammon you're probably in the high risk zone for heart disease. We should probably be referring them to their GPs as soon as they're identified.

 

 

Edited June 9 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There is a race element to it, they're all older white men.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Racism is defined by the belief that someone is x because of the colour of their skin. Generalisation of all based on one shared value. One race can do this better than others. Another race all think this. This race struggle because...

Gammon if anything is ageist, rather than racist. Yes you generally have to be white. But thats not the defining characteristic of the generisation. Im white and wouldnt be called gammon. If i got old, bald, fat and angry, then maybe.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

That's what I just said. It has a racial element but it doesn't fall under the strict definition of racism.

 

It is used to mock a particular group, and one of the key attributes of that group is their race. It's probably not intended to imply that all older white men are gammon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets used in ways approaching that. 

 

 

Edited June 9 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Wullie]

The best adjective I could come up with for it is probably 'unhelpful'.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Can't deny it has been satisfying to use when you want to get back at Brexit voters mind.

[Klaus]

The term has no links to historical racism or slavery, like the N word or the K word in SAfrica.

 

Any white guy claiming to be a victim of racism after being called 'gammon', is lying to themselves as well as everyone else. Those crying 'Racist' will be anti woke anti BLM snowflakes etc.

 

 

Edited June 9 by Klaus

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

I think it's hilarious, personally. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

The cry of "that's racist" definitely does has an element of whataboutism to it. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I didn't realise it went back to Dickens (and earlier according to wiki). Guess it's a natural comparison for a red face.

 

 

Edited June 9 by AyeDubbleYoo

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

The cry of "that's racist" definitely does has an element of whataboutism to it. 

 

Kind of why it isn't helpful to call people these things. You just get into a debate that's not about the issue at hand. Best to avoid any debates based on identity rather than arguments. 

[TBG]

Those that are likely to get upset over it, are those that call people "snowflakes" for getting upset over their actual racist comments. 

[OpenC]

I have it filed alongside "snowflake", "karen", "sjw" et al.  Completely unhelpful pigeonholing which serves only to reinforce stereotypes and degrade debate

[gbandit]

I don’t like Karen, SJW or Snowflake at all but I don’t mind Gammon. I think the sole reason for that is that the people who generally are defined as gammon are a demographic who have had it good for most of their lives and are still livid as fuck. I like that there is a collective term for this even if it’s not helpful, I certainly wouldn’t use it as an insult to someone but I would use it when talking with friends. The channel 4 debate meme picture with the nine gammon faces enraged about Corbyn not committing to go nuclear and kill millions of people is an absolute classic 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It certainly feels like a way to get back at people who have generally been ‘winning’. Not sure that’s a particularly healthy impulse to follow mind. 

[hakka]

Agree with how OpenC and Wullie framed it.

 

I sort of see where Ian is coming from, I think if it was a pejorative aimed at elderly black men then it would easily and obviously be racist. I think key here is that its predominantly a white on white pejorative, so it's intent isn't based on degrading a different ethnicity group specifically.

 

I just hate all the silly insult terms... they actually stop credible debate and reinforce tribalism. If you insult someone when trying to change their mind, then surprise surprise, they ain't going to listen.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I was just saying that race is an element of gammonhood, therefore it’s a bit more problematic. Either way it’s definitely not helpful. 

[BlueStar]

Is Priti Patel a gammon?