Wandy Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 26 minutes ago, Geogaddi said: No wonder the rest of the country think we are deluded morons mind, some on here wanting a manager out after ten games . Who said anything about wanting him out? He has got to do better, results-wise, that's all. Playing nice football but getting beat every week is not acceptable. Fulham did that last season and look what happened there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandy Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, GWN said: I get questioning him, fair enough but to use words like crowd bearing teeth is off the scale and shows little knowledge of football . Utterly ridiculous going on like that . Dear me. Bearing teeth just meant being a bit more critical. Not actually asking for him to be sacked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 26 minutes ago, TRon said: He talks such a good game it's impossible to not be impressed. Meh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OoOGazOoO Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 "Have there been any bids for our players, Eddie" "No, no bids for our players" Shock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Wandy said: Just remember that only two weeks ago we had one of the worst results in our history, so the idea that the current manager is blameless is bullshit. He has also had the luxury of the most supportive home crowd for at least 15 years and we have little to show for it. Even Rafa didn't have that luxury and Bruce achieved results against the exact opposite backdrop. The honeymoon is over and it's time that the support showed it's teeth a little more as we are sleepwalking into the Championship. Bruce was saved by Covid, I reckon. Even with Ashley in charge, I don't think he would have survived how toxic it would have become. How many games were played behind closed doors during his time here? Seemed like it was about a season and a half?! His first half season or so, or whatever it was. It just felt flat and dead. Not even particularly negative towards him. I thought the Bruce out stuff at games only really took off once fans were back this season? Rafa got universally backed by the fans at games, mind. He certainly got more adulation than Howe, IMO. Based on current results, rightly so and all. Other than that, I suppose you're right. Not sure what showing me gnashers is going to do, mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, jonny1403 said: And people forget that we had 10 games at the start of this season that apart from 1 or 2 were the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for. We were firmly, firmly in the shit before Howe arrived thanks to Bruce. I'm not sure about that, in hindsight we had a tough start. West Ham H 2-4, have turned out to be top 4 contenders, not an easy fixture. Aston Villa A 0-2, an away match against a better side than us, not an easy fixture. Southampton H 2-2, expected to be relegation fodder but are a solid mid-table team, not as easy a fixture as it seemed. Man U A 1-4, not an easy fixture. Leeds H 1-1, one we'd probably expect to win, maybe could be described as an easy fixture. Watford A 1-1, maybe could be described as an easy fixture, but it is away. Wolves A 1-2, a top half team away, not an easy fixture. Tottenham H 2-3, not an easy fixture. 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 3 debatables. Brentford H 3-3, playing a team at home that had just lost to Norwich and Burnley, easy fixture. Arsenal A 0-2, not an easy fixture. Norwich H 1-1, easy fixture. Burnley H 1-0, easy fixture. Leicester A 0-4, not an easy fixture, but probably easiest we're going to get away against a top half team. Liverpool A 1-3, not an easy fixture Man City H 0-4, not an easy fixture Man U H 1-1, not an easy fixture Watford H 1-1, easy fixture 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 4 definitely easy fixtures. Edited January 21, 2022 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Conjo said: Yes I am. It's pointless arguing that he's had enough backing in the market based on something that hasn't happened yet. We might as well just not discuss anything then. I said "he'll have had" not "he's had". He's already been given £25M to spend on Chris Wood, we've brought in Trippier, and there will undoubtedly be more significant deals to be done in the next week and a half. If we don't make any more signings at all, then he clearly won't have had "enough backing". However, if we spend £100M+ and still go down after 27 games of him as manager, I don't think he should be kept on. All pointless, though, apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Depends who's available. Even if we go down I can't think of any champo manager I'd really rather have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Rich said: We might as well just not discuss anything then. I said "he'll have had" not "he's had". He's already been given £25M to spend on Chris Wood, we've brought in Trippier, and there will undoubtedly be more significant deals to be done in the next week and a half. If we don't make any more signings at all, then he clearly won't have had "enough backing". However, if we spend £100M+ and still go down after 27 games of him as manager, I don't think he should be kept on. All pointless, though, apologies. Broadly agree with you but re the bit in bold, the backing is clearly there so he's accountable if the transfer window fails due to him selecting targets that aren't/were never attainable (Botman/Carlos/Lingard). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: I'm not sure about that, in hindsight we had a tough start. West Ham H 2-4, have turned out to be top 4 contenders, not an easy fixture. Aston Villa A 0-2, an away match against a better side than us, not an easy fixture. Southampton H 2-2, expected to be relegation fodder but are a solid mid-table team, not as easy a fixture as it seemed. Man U A 1-4, not an easy fixture. Leeds H 1-1, one we'd probably expect to win, maybe could be described as an easy fixture. Watford A 1-1, maybe could be described as an easy fixture, but it is away. Wolves A 1-1, a top half team away, not an easy fixture. Tottenham H 2-3, not an easy fixture. 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 3 debatables. Brentford H 3-3, playing a team at home that had just lost to Norwich and Burnley, easy fixture. Arsenal A 0-2, not an easy fixture. Norwich H 1-1, easy fixture. Burnley H 1-0, easy fixture. Leicester A 0-4, not an easy fixture, but probably easiest we're going to get away against a top half team. Liverpool A 1-3, not an easy fixture Man City H 0-4, not an easy fixture Man U H 1-1, not an easy fixture Watford H 1-1, easy fixture 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 4 definitely easy fixtures. That's all a bit basic, isn't it? Using hindsight to look back at the earlier games, where teams are now and not based on how those games were at the time, the positions of the opponents, their form and ability at the time, different managers etc. Spurs were shite under Nuno. Watford were just as bad and in shite form under Munoz too, if memory serves? Leeds and Southampton at home not seen as easy/winnable games at the time? Villa? Were they really any good back then? They've had an upturn in form and good results and performances since Gerrard came in. They're still only 13th after all that, mind? Plus the difference in the games listed under Bruce and then under Howe, playing a few teams who are light years ahead and basically always beat us in Liverpool, City and Arsenal. Man U and all. Although we did catch them at a good time, I suppose. They look average now. Edited January 21, 2022 by Lush Vlad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 We lost to Wolves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Villa have lost more matches than us. They were very beatable under Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said: That's all a bit basic, isn't it? Using hindsight to look back at the earlier games, where teams are now and not based on how those games were at the time, the positions of the opponents, their form and ability at the time, different managers etc. Spurs were shite under Nuno. Watford were just as bad and in shite form under Munoz too, if memory serves? Leeds and Southampton at home not seen as easy/winnable games at the time? Villa? Were they really any good back then? They've had an upturn in form and good results and performances since Gerrard came in. They're still only 13th after all that, mind? Plus the difference in the games listed and then playing teams who are light years ahead and basically always beat us in Liverpool, City and Arsenal. Man U and all. Although we did catch them at a good time, I suppose. They look average now. I was simply responding to the statement that "the start of this season that apart from 1 or 2 were the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for", which just doesn't line up with reality. In reality all of the "easiest fixtures", all of our matches at home against the current bottom 4 other teams this season, have been under Howe. Edited January 21, 2022 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Jackie Broon said: I was simply responding to the statement that "the start of this season that apart from 1 or 2 were the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for". Which just doesn't line up with reality. In reality all of the "easiest fixtures", all of our matches at home against the current bottom 4 other teams this season, have been under Howe. We were under less pressure at the start of the season though, far harder once we are already fighting relegation. The mood and momentum was set by Bruce in those early fixtures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, TRon said: We were under less pressure at the start of the season though, far harder once we are already fighting relegation. The mood and momentum was set by Bruce in those early fixtures. True, but that doesn't make the original statement I responded to any more true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny1403 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 52 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: I'm not sure about that, in hindsight we had a tough start. West Ham H 2-4, have turned out to be top 4 contenders, not an easy fixture. Aston Villa A 0-2, an away match against a better side than us, not an easy fixture. Southampton H 2-2, expected to be relegation fodder but are a solid mid-table team, not as easy a fixture as it seemed. Man U A 1-4, not an easy fixture. Leeds H 1-1, one we'd probably expect to win, maybe could be described as an easy fixture. Watford A 1-1, maybe could be described as an easy fixture, but it is away. Wolves A 1-2, a top half team away, not an easy fixture. Tottenham H 2-3, not an easy fixture. 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 3 debatables. Brentford H 3-3, playing a team at home that had just lost to Norwich and Burnley, easy fixture. Arsenal A 0-2, not an easy fixture. Norwich H 1-1, easy fixture. Burnley H 1-0, easy fixture. Leicester A 0-4, not an easy fixture, but probably easiest we're going to get away against a top half team. Liverpool A 1-3, not an easy fixture Man City H 0-4, not an easy fixture Man U H 1-1, not an easy fixture Watford H 1-1, easy fixture 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 4 definitely easy fixtures. That's a weird way of categorising it given that you've equated matches against West Ham and Villa as the same difficulty as Liverpool and City . You also for some reason think Watford away, a pretty awful team, is debatable but Brentford, a far better team at home is definitely an easy game? A much simpler analysis would be to flag that we had two top 6 teams in the first run and four plus Leicester in the second run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I think the stars were never aligned for Rafa to return. He would have been the guy because he would have sorted the defense first and guaranteed our survival. Eddie was not my first choice but I'm still behind him. Also think we will stay up irregardless of transfer business. We just need a spark and a bit of belief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rich said: We might as well just not discuss anything then. I said "he'll have had" not "he's had". He's already been given £25M to spend on Chris Wood, we've brought in Trippier, and there will undoubtedly be more significant deals to be done in the next week and a half. If we don't make any more signings at all, then he clearly won't have had "enough backing". However, if we spend £100M+ and still go down after 27 games of him as manager, I don't think he should be kept on. All pointless, though, apologies. Purely hypothetical, but say were to drift for a while, drawing too many games as we are, then suddenly it all falls into place and we win five of our last half dozen games, but we go down by a point or two. Would you still want him binned? If we go down, I think how we go down will play a big part in his future. Edited January 21, 2022 by The Prophet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Jackie Broon said: I'm not sure about that, in hindsight we had a tough start. West Ham H 2-4, have turned out to be top 4 contenders, not an easy fixture. Aston Villa A 0-2, an away match against a better side than us, not an easy fixture. Southampton H 2-2, expected to be relegation fodder but are a solid mid-table team, not as easy a fixture as it seemed. Man U A 1-4, not an easy fixture. Leeds H 1-1, one we'd probably expect to win, maybe could be described as an easy fixture. Watford A 1-1, maybe could be described as an easy fixture, but it is away. Wolves A 1-2, a top half team away, not an easy fixture. Tottenham H 2-3, not an easy fixture. 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 3 debatables. Brentford H 3-3, playing a team at home that had just lost to Norwich and Burnley, easy fixture. Arsenal A 0-2, not an easy fixture. Norwich H 1-1, easy fixture. Burnley H 1-0, easy fixture. Leicester A 0-4, not an easy fixture, but probably easiest we're going to get away against a top half team. Liverpool A 1-3, not an easy fixture Man City H 0-4, not an easy fixture Man U H 1-1, not an easy fixture Watford H 1-1, easy fixture 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 4 definitely easy fixtures. We are possibly the worst team in the division so any start would be tricky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Jackie Broon said: I'm not sure about that, in hindsight we had a tough start. West Ham H 2-4, have turned out to be top 4 contenders, not an easy fixture. Aston Villa A 0-2, an away match against a better side than us, not an easy fixture. Southampton H 2-2, expected to be relegation fodder but are a solid mid-table team, not as easy a fixture as it seemed. Man U A 1-4, not an easy fixture. Leeds H 1-1, one we'd probably expect to win, maybe could be described as an easy fixture. Watford A 1-1, maybe could be described as an easy fixture, but it is away. Wolves A 1-2, a top half team away, not an easy fixture. Tottenham H 2-3, not an easy fixture. 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 3 debatables. Brentford H 3-3, playing a team at home that had just lost to Norwich and Burnley, easy fixture. Arsenal A 0-2, not an easy fixture. Norwich H 1-1, easy fixture. Burnley H 1-0, easy fixture. Leicester A 0-4, not an easy fixture, but probably easiest we're going to get away against a top half team. Liverpool A 1-3, not an easy fixture Man City H 0-4, not an easy fixture Man U H 1-1, not an easy fixture Watford H 1-1, easy fixture 5 definitely not easy fixtures and 4 definitely easy fixtures. Leeds and Southampton at home and Watford away were very winnable fixtures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, jonny1403 said: That's a weird way of categorising it given that you've equated matches against West Ham and Villa as the same difficulty as Liverpool and City . You also for some reason think Watford away, a pretty awful team, is debatable but Brentford, a far better team at home is definitely an easy game? A much simpler analysis would be to flag that we had two top 6 teams in the first run and four plus Leicester in the second run. So in your categorisation exactly which are "the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for" if you're not including the other bottom four teams at home in that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The Prophet said: Leeds and Southampton at home and Watford away were very winnable fixtures. Yes, but so were Brentford, Norwich and Watford at home. Again, what I was responding to was an assertion that the start to the season (specifically the first 10 but I've only included Bruce's) was "apart from 1 or 2 were the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for". That just doesn't line up with reality, the first 10 games were not significantly 'easier' than the following 10, if anything the following 10 have included more of the 'easier' fixtures. Edited January 21, 2022 by Jackie Broon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny1403 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: So in your categorisation exactly which are "the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for" if you're not including the other bottom four teams at home in that? No, you're right, technically the fixtures were not the easiest possible fixtures that could have been generated ffs The point was that they were certainly easier than the next ten, and I stand by that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyc35i Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Regardless of the fixtures so far and who was managing the team, I think we should have at least 8 more points than we currently have. I mean some games really stick out to me where we should have taken three points. That stoppage time goal against Southampton (I know they were far better than us), all the easy chances we missed at Watford and the 88th minute equaliser against them at home, and the ASM open goal chance against Man Utd - I just don’t think we have had any real rub of the green this year. I guess we wasted it all last season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Jackie Broon said: Yes, but so were Brentford, Norwich and Watford at home. Again, what I was responding to was an assertion that the start to the season (specifically the first 10 but I've only included Bruce's) was "apart from 1 or 2 were the easiest fixtures we could have hoped for". That just doesn't line up with reality, the first 10 games were not significantly 'easier' than the following 10, if anything the following 10 have included more of the 'easier' fixtures. Fair enough No games are easy when you're chronically undercoached and fitness levels drop after the hour mark. There's definitely no excuses for last weekend, but he'd been here for five minutes pre-Brentford and missed the match through COVID. Then Norwich we were down to ten after ten minutes, though you could argue its partially his fault for selecting Clark. He hasn't had much luck, that's for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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