Everton’s 10 point deduction

[Gawalls]

20 minutes ago, madras said:

It came into effect on July 1st and didn't affect what they had done and wouldn't have stopped them doing it again in that January window as he signed on the 15th.

That’s why it’s defined as a loop hole being closed as opposed to a rule being broken.

[madras]

13 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

That’s why it’s defined as a loop hole being closed as opposed to a rule being broken.

Why wasn't FMV classed as a loophole then? Seems more like when it's a big 6 "take your time", when it's a non big 6 "get it stopped before they have a chance to use it and threaten the closed shop".

 

Just pointing out the differences in the way things are treated.

 

 

Edited November 18 by madras

[RodneyCisse]

2 hours ago, nufcnick said:

Man City have been charged by the PL, but they have 113 charges to go through and get right compared to Everton’s 1 charge, and city are fighting and blocking every step of the way, the PL will get them and Chelsea in the end. Do you want it done quickly where there is a chance the PL fuck up and city get away with it, or do you want it done properly and City and Chelsea get nailed to the wall. 

Nail them to the cross and we’ll be ready to pick up the pieces in a few years of it takes that long.

[Beth]

A total non story as they'll still finish in front of the three promoted teams this season. And even then, if it looks like they might struggle to do that it'll be reduced on appeal in the new year.

 

Any reason why this was not applied last season when it would have mattered?

[The Prophet]

The hearing was only last month. The PL tried to fast-track it but they hadn't given Everton though time to submit their defence.

[bhoywhonder]

 

 

Everton right now...

[OCK]

24 minutes ago, Beth said:

A total non story as they'll still finish in front of the three promoted teams this season. And even then, if it looks like they might struggle to do that it'll be reduced on appeal in the new year.

 

Any reason why this was not applied last season when it would have mattered?

 

Yes, Beth. The reason it wasn't applied last season was because it was applied this season. Also Everton are a legacy club and Masters is a huge mega Everton fan. 

[BergenMagpie]

Should be a good chance for the media to ask why no serious actions were taken against the breakaway clubs for ESL. The Premier League then said they didnt want the fans to suffer for their owners mistakes, but this is the same (Im all for the points deductions for Everton FWIW)

[Memphis]

I don't have much sympathy for Everton, the case against them is pretty cut and dried. The only defenses are: 1) the punishment is too harsh and 2) what about Chelsea/Man City. 

 

With regard to 1, I think it may be a bit harsh but I think the willful nature of the deceit is being punished here. The idea being that FFP representatives from a club are there to act in good faith, not act in the most deceitful possible way that is in an interpretation of the rules. Everton didn't do that and the PL is trying to make a statement about what that means.

 

Which brings us to 2. The initial difference between these cases is that Man City/Chelsea have vigorously denied and are contesting the claims, which is delaying things hugely. That is their right. The rubber will meet the road if City/Chelsea are eventually found guilty, as by this standard, they would face an astronomical punishment. Would they enforce it? Would they try? Would they expect CAS or some such to intervene? I don't know. I do think they're going to have to do *something* as the coalition of clubs and owners who aren't a part of this will have a measure of influence to try to "clean it up", at least for appearances.

[AJ9]

Don’t think this is a non-story at all. It’s set a precedent and opens up a potential Pandora’s box legally.

[Jaqen]

[SAK]

4 hours ago, Mattoon said:

I still think the FFP system is fundamentally flawed and skewed in a way that benefits established teams, however on flip side of that it's imperative that there's a way to stop clubs overreach and bankrupting a club essentially wiping it off the map and also I think it would be unfair to allow clubs such as our to spend unfettered.

 

There has to be a better way of policing finances without restricting competition.

Easy cap budgets to the highest budget in the league, don’t let owners lump debt on to club beyond their ability to service that debt, allow owners to spend their own money up to the budget limit. Level playing field for those who want to challenge and can afford it i.e us and those who can’t pump their own money in can’t bankrupt clubs by taking out loans against their club. 

[madras]

10 minutes ago, Memphis said:

I don't have much sympathy for Everton, the case against them is pretty cut and dried. The only defenses are: 1) the punishment is too harsh and 2) what about Chelsea/Man City. 

 

With regard to 1, I think it may be a bit harsh but I think the willful nature of the deceit is being punished here. The idea being that FFP representatives from a club are there to act in good faith, not act in the most deceitful possible way that is in an interpretation of the rules. Everton didn't do that and the PL is trying to make a statement about what that means.

 

Which brings us to 2. The initial difference between these cases is that Man City/Chelsea have vigorously denied and are contesting the claims, which is delaying things hugely. That is their right. The rubber will meet the road if City/Chelsea are eventually found guilty, as by this standard, they would face an astronomical punishment. Would they enforce it? Would they try? Would they expect CAS or some such to intervene? I don't know. I do think they're going to have to do *something* as the coalition of clubs and owners who aren't a part of this will have a measure of influence to try to "clean it up", at least for appearances.

And maybe 3. The authorities shitting themselves that a Chelsea or Man City may be more likely to take the legal route rather than something like CAS.

[OCK]

Yeah the next move from a club like Chelsea/City will be fighting the legal/competative nature of FFP, picking holes in the legal wording, etc. It didn't explicitly say we couldn't and all that shit.

 

 

Edited November 18 by OCK

[The Prophet]

It does seem pretty evident here from both the report and the fallout, the PL were trying to draw a line in the sand. Strangely they've started to behave more and more like a regulator of late,carried that...

[Geogaddi]

Not sure why the Everton fans are so pissed off , they have basically got away with one getting the points deduction this season as they won't get relegated anyway .

[McDog]

7 minutes ago, Carlton said:

Just been reading an article by Fair Cop asking why a lesbian should be banned by the club for disagreeing with trans ideology. She's been suspended for this season and the next two.

For those of you with a conscience, is it fair to ban someone who has said nothing wrong but does not agree with the privileges demanded by these people? 

Is there anything else that is so terrible to discuss that you should be banned although people committing violence on the streets and calling for the deaths of people of another nationality are not penalised

 

Not sure how germane this is to the discussion on Everton's 10 point deduction.

[The Prophet]

My position will always be from a place of sympathy because I believe the Financial Fair Play laws are flawed and ultimately handicap anyone outside the "big six" who try to compete.

 

Of course that is the law of the land, Everton have broken it and will be punished. I'll be surprised if it isn't reduced on appeal though.

[Carlton]

6 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

Not sure how germane this is to the discussion on Everton's 10 point deduction.

It isn't but it doesn't look as though I can start a new thread.

[madras]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

My position will always be from a place of sympathy because I believe the Financial Fair Play laws are flawed and ultimately handicap anyone outside the "big six" who try to compete.

 

Of course that is the law of the land, Everton have broken it and will be punished. I'll be surprised if it isn't reduced on appeal though.

I thi k they know there'll be no need. Also it sets a precedent. The Man City and Chelsea ones are bigger in scope and the bar has been set.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, madras said:

I thi k they know there'll be no need. Also it sets a precedent. The Man City and Chelsea ones are bigger in scope and the bar has been set.

 

Aye, the PL say in the report it's intended to have a "deterrent" effect.

 

I think where it might fall down is the lack of clarity around and opaque nature of the PLs sanctions. If they were a public body, they'd get torn a new one in a Judicial Review.

[Dokko]

Hopefully it's increased on appeal. 

[midds]

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

[McDog]

17 minutes ago, Carlton said:

It isn't but it doesn't look as though I can start a new thread.

 

 

I think there is some general threads you could discuss this in. I think it was discussed somewhere around here.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, midds said:

Still think it's pretty ridiculous that the PL punishments are handed out after the judgement has already been made and no-one has a clue what they might be. There isn't a sanction league table for want of a better expression. 

 

Breach FFP by £5m? £2m fine

Breach FFP by £50m? we'll take 5 points

Breach FFP by £500m? we'll relegate you and ban you from re-entering the PL for 5 years etc

 

No fucker knows where they stand or what punishment they'll get or whether it'll be consistent from club to club, they're making it up as they go along depending on which way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is a load of utter shit to benefit a tiny handful of established clubs who grew without any restrictions until they became so powerful they inserted this thick glass floor beneath them. The fact they then sold it as being 'fair' was the icing on the cake. The fact they then went ahead, signed the contracts to launch the ESL which would have destroyed the English footballing pyramid and got of with a poxy fine they fucking negotiated themselves speaks volumes as to how fair the PL actually is. 

 

Genuinely hope Everton challenge all of it and it all comes crashing down. I'll not hold my breath though

 

 

Good post, that's pretty much where I'm at.