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This Climate Change Lark.............


Minhosa
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An alternative view.

 

Think back to the ice age when there were no factories, nuclear facilities, cars, air travel etc etc AND still there was a huge climatic change. Whilst the research (published thus far) points the finger of blame at us there is an alternative argument that reckons the worlds climate goes through cyclical change every 500 years or so and that perhaps we don't influence as much as some would have us believe.

 

Therefore, is the rapid onset of 'Climate Change Mania' a timely, appropriate "excuse" for our Government to do all of the things they want to without having to take any immediate or short term responsibility as its all in the name of 'climate change' and for the 'long term good'? (God - that sounded just like a Garth Crooks question from football focus - sorry!  :buck2:)

 

Examples are already around with increases in air travel tax, car tax for 4x4's and increasing energy costs where the current government will not really be measured because it will all be in the name of "Climate Change and the greater good".

 

I'm a bit sceptical TBH and think the 'hysterical' response by some quarters has been to fulfill their own interests/agenda.

 

Controversial or am I just being a bit dense/cynical?

 

Anyway - thoughts?

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No you are a hysterical lunatic that loves big business, the world climate will rise by 2 degree in 100 years and life will be extinct...even though you will be dead by then, we have to care about it.

 

2 4 6 8 tax me when I exhale

3 5 7 9 the world aint mine to ruin

 

 

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No you are a hysterical lunatic that loves big business, the world climate will rise by 2 degree in 100 years and life will be extinct...even though you will be dead by then, we have to care about it.

 

2 4 6 8 tax me when I exhale

3 5 7 9 the world aint mine to ruin

 

 

WTF?

 

After that little ditty my minds completed a 360 degree turn on me. In the words of Paul Weller "I'm a changing man". Such a strong, logical argument, based on pure reason. Can't be beaten TBH.

 

Fucks sakes.

 

 

 

 

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I was thinking about this the other day. The world's just about due a change tbh... Perhaps we are ever so slightly speeding up what is a natural process.. But it was going to happen sometime. I think we're safe-ish for a good few generations anyway.

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Good use of the word "Mania", very accurate! I am also very sceptical and read / heard many theories by scientists ( " experts " ) in the field who basicly go over the point you made above, with every 500 or so years climate change is recorded... I also believe this moment in time would fit in with the theory.

 

At the end of the day the government will tax us at any given opportunity. For people who fly the most, execs and other business people who fly all the time paid for on expenses, taxing air travel is of no use whatsoever.

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Glad its not just me then.

 

The other thing is...............why do we always have to get involved with 'Leading' all of this sort of stuff? Why don't we do a 'France' and see what happens? Why don't we let Greece or Italy sort out climate change?

 

Do we really expect to make any impact anyway with the US/China/Russia showing no interest?

 

The more I think the more cynical I get about this. Another excuse to tax us? You betcha.

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The people who keep up this pretence that man is not to blame for global warming and it's all a big conspiracy are essentially the right's version of the left's "Bush did 9/11" nuts.  There's no point even having a debate with them because they'll see what they want to see.

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The people who keep up this pretence that man is not to blame for global warming and it's all a big conspiracy are essentially the right's version of the left's "Bush did 9/11" nuts.  There's no point even having a debate with them because they'll see what they want to see.

 

All I see is one piece of research with isn't sufficient to convince me that the hysterical response in needed OR why its always the UK that decides to lead the way on these things.

 

Where is the overwhelming evidence that man is to blame and that its not cyclical?

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The people who keep up this pretence that man is not to blame for global warming and it's all a big conspiracy are essentially the right's version of the left's "Bush did 9/11" nuts.  There's no point even having a debate with them because they'll see what they want to see.

 

All I see is one piece of research with isn't sufficient to convince me that the hysterical response in needed OR why its always the UK that decides to lead the way on these things.

 

Where is the overwhelming evidence that man is to blame and that its not cyclical?

 

There has been study afetr study after study, the best scientists in the world, research backed by over one hundred countries, recreations of the effects in lab conditions and models created which can be given data from the past and sucessfully predict current climate change from this data.

 

Here is the most recent, massive study

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070202/D8N1AV0G2.html

PARIS (AP) - The world's leading climate scientists said global warming has begun, is "very likely" caused by man, and will be unstoppable for centuries, according to a report obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

 

The scientists - using their strongest language yet on the issue - said now that world has begun to warm, hotter temperatures and rises in sea level "would continue for centuries" no matter how much humans control their pollution. The report also linked the warming to the recent increase in stronger hurricanes.

...

The phrase "very likely" translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. That was the strongest conclusion to date, making it nearly impossible to say natural forces are to blame.

 

What that means in simple language is "we have this nailed," said top U.S. climate scientist Jerry Mahlman, who originated the percentage system.

 

The 20-page report, which was due to be officially released later in the day, represents the most authoritative science on global warming.

 

The new language marked an escalation from the panel's last report in 2001, which said warming was "likely" caused by human activity. There had been speculation that the participants might try to say it is "virtually certain" man causes global warming, which translates to 99 percent certainty.

 

But like I say, no evidence is good enough.  All it takes is one person to take up one of the oil companies offers like this

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatec...2004397,00.html

Scientists offered cash to dispute climate study

Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today.

 

And write some musings on a blog about how it's all junk science and people grab a hold of it and decide the whole theory of man made global warming has fallen apart in a few paragraphs on geocities.  Just like people will ignore all the evidence that islamic nut jobs did 9/11 and grab onto a blurry video on youtube of a smudge they are told is a missile.

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Bluestar,

 

If its research backed by 100's of countries, why does it only seem to be the UK making the right noises about addressing it and why aren't the yanks, ruskies and chinese getting involved?

 

Surely, if the research cannot be disputed and is 'certainly caused by man', the other players can't continue to ignore it?

 

I'm just cynical as to our Governments intentions and the impact the doubtless changes we'll make, and suffer for, that others won't just to be seen to be doing the right thing WHILST still making the Government oodles of cash.

 

Not having a go, BTW.

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Bluestar,

 

If its research backed by 100's of countries, why does it only seem to be the UK making the right noises about addressing it and why aren't the yanks, ruskies and chinese getting involved?

 

Because of the massive clout the oil companies hold in the US (See the bribes for scientists to fault the latest report) and the fact the republican government is lothed to do anythign which might restrict big business because of their ideas on things like trickle down ergonomics, and because China is growing at a gigantic rate, mostly fueled by the hundreds of coal fired powerstations they're building at a rate of about one per day.  Having to consider the environment would check that growth.

 

But to turn the question around, if what you have said is true, why are the Americans and Chinese saying the same things and conning their citizens out of tax?

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OK - You seem to be saying that our government is falsly claiming climate change is man made (and plowing money into fighting it) so they can tax the little man on carbon emissions.  ie, although they say that the idea is to discourage the production of greenhouse gasses, their plan is for people to continue to use them and pay the government more money (Although if people do listen to the government about saving energy, cutting down on pollution etc then the plan backfires).   I'm saying, if that's the case, why aren't the countries you talk about getting on the bandwagon and talking up climate change to con their citizens in the same manner?

 

Do you really think Blair would go against Bush on one of the only (if not the only) thing he's not toed the US line on if he knew it was all bollocks?

 

EDIT:  Sorry, that was my mistake - I meant to say "why aren't the Americans and Chinese saying the same things and conning their citizens out of tax?"

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To answer your question: I don't know perhaps their citizens won't buy it, won't change their ways or are not taxed as ridiculously as we are in this country. Maybe the Yanks/Chinese aren't sold on it either and want 100% conclusive proof?

 

Turn your lights off, recycle this, recycle that, put your TV off stand by when your finished etc won't reverse the dent in my finances from the increased charges for my road tax, for my petrol, for my family holidays and, inevitably, for my car journeys when I've got to put one of them tracker things on it.

 

My cynicism comes from the fact that there will only be one winner financially and it won't be joe bloggs and also, if it turns out to be a whole loads of bollocks, this government will not be accountable for the extra taxes anyway cos they'll be long gone.

 

Not looking for an argument here, just explaining my cynicism.

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Guest Hibbits left foot

The people who keep up this pretence that man is not to blame for global warming and it's all a big conspiracy are essentially the right's version of the left's "Bush did 9/11" nuts.  There's no point even having a debate with them because they'll see what they want to see.

Im a f******* communist and even i can see through the climate change bollocks - climate change the new religion for the 21st century

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Firstly I quite like the fact that Britain is trying to lead the way. We all have a duty to each other and I like the fact that Britain is at least trying to be responsible about this.

 

Also looking at it from a purely economic point of view there are good reasons for energy saving and alternative energy. Britain's natural resources aren't going to last indefinitely. Soon we're going to be a net importer of energy and it is going to cost the country a s*** load. I think we're already a net importer of electricity.

 

Alternative energy will become far more widepread in the future as reserves gradually deplete and prices increase. There could potentially be an awful lot of money in being at the forefront of 'green' energy development.

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Bluestar,

 

If its research backed by 100's of countries, why does it only seem to be the UK making the right noises about addressing it and why aren't the yanks, ruskies and chinese getting involved?

 

Surely, if the research cannot be disputed and is 'certainly caused by man', the other players can't continue to ignore it?

 

I'm just cynical as to our Governments intentions and the impact the doubtless changes we'll make, and suffer for, that others won't just to be seen to be doing the right thing WHILST still making the Government oodles of cash.

 

Not having a go, BTW.

Bluestar,

 

If its research backed by 100's of countries, why does it only seem to be the UK making the right noises about addressing it and why aren't the yanks, ruskies and chinese getting involved?

 

Surely, if the research cannot be disputed and is 'certainly caused by man', the other players can't continue to ignore it?

 

I'm just cynical as to our Governments intentions and the impact the doubtless changes we'll make, and suffer for, that others won't just to be seen to be doing the right thing WHILST still making the Government oodles of cash.

 

Not having a go, BTW.

UK making right noise ?  because we are in the UK so we here more about what our government thinks.

 

the yanks,ruskies,chinese are getting involved,the US at state level is doing more than the.. UK.china has admitted global warming at party executive level and the russkies like the  UK are talking about it whilst actually increasing the ammount we pollute.

 

for the last part i'm trying to find the report i read that claimed that the governments plans could be a boost for business and take money out of th exchequer

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Don't click the link BlueStar provided, he once provided a link to a personal site of a communist wearing a hawaiian shirt who argued that Hitler was an individualist and the capitalist west is collectivist because it has armies.

 

 

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