Raconteur Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Steven Gerrard is the most gifted midfield player in the world bar none. Was just 'avin a larf about the RL. Sorry, I should have put a safety wink after the first line I'll have to disagree about most gifted in the world - it's a very bold claim and I'm sure the likes of Ronaldinho, Kaka and Cristiano Ronaldo to name just three would have something to say about it. But hey, this whole thread is all about opinions, agree to disagree? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 In no particular order Alan Shearer Peter Beardsley Michael Owen Steven Gerrard Terry Butcher Peter Shilton Paul Gascoigne David Beckham Stuart Pearce Bryan Robson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brewer Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Platt was a good player but he was essentially just a box-to-box midfielder with a great engine and an eye for goal. I have to say I'd take Platt over Gerrard eight days a week. That's why aussies should stick to Rugby League That's a bit harsh Stevie! But maybe you're right, my being Australian makes me view English players differently than you - I think that any player with a modicum of talent is massively over-hyped, way above the reality of the situation. In my opinion Stevie G is one of those players, over-rated by an English press and public desperate to think they're still a force on the world stage. That's not to say he's the most over-rated English player going around - ahead of him on that list are the likes of Lampard, Ashley Cole, Lennon. I'd say he's in a similar bracket to Terry and Rooney - talented yes, world beater no... And as for Platt, what can I say, I loved the way he played, not in Scholes' class but close - again, in my opinion Steven Gerrard is the most gifted midfield player in the world bar none. Was just 'avin a larf about the RL. He clearly isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Platt was a good player but he was essentially just a box-to-box midfielder with a great engine and an eye for goal. He was good, but he never had anywhere near the class of a Gascoigne or a Hoddle. With the one difference that Platt consistently produced for England. Something which Hoddle didn't manage. Depends if you're going to factor England performances in to your list, really. Example - John Barnes, fantastic player in the league, how many England caps? 80 odd? How many decent games for England? 3? Depressingly familiar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The thing is with Andy Cole, how many times did he play for England? 3? Le Tissier never won anything or played more than a few times for England. Also I can't put Owen in and leave Lineker out, he is the top scorer after all, but he doesn't merit a place in the top 10 for me, he admits himself he'd have been nothing for England without Peter. They're all good players MLT, GL etc... but who would you remove to put them in. gerrard for sure You're kidding me on? what has he done for england? Carried us single handedly while all the other prima donnas sunned themselves up? When? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Glenn Hoddle,simply the most gifted player i have had the pleasure of watching.Beckham,Gascoigne and the likes couldn't lace his boots. Alan Shearer,the best striker for many a year, Paul Gascoigne,a career that could have been so much better but on his day Gazza was a world class player. Terry Butcher,lion hearted defender who literally sweat blood for England Gary Lineker,to me was a fucking goalhanger,tap in merchant but his goals record are world class Chris Waddle,awesome talent and very under rated in this country.Should have been Euro player of the year while at Marseilles. Michael Owen,when fit,he is Englands only current world class player. Paul Ince,would have loved to see him play for us,a hard man midfielder with a creative touch also.We would have loved him. Peter Beardsley,probably my fave Newcastle player,Pedro had heart and skill and impishness in abundance. Kevin Keegan,he was not a natural player but had more heart than any other i've seen.Ran his bollocks for club and country and carried England virtually single handedly between 1979 and 1982. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Steven Gerrard is the most gifted midfield player in the world bar none. Was just 'avin a larf about the RL. Good joke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think Lineker was nothing without Beardsley, nothing. He said the same himself, he was nothing other than a good moocher. Fair enough he scored a hattrick in "El Classico" but all his goals were tap ins, he'd never be above the likes of Barnes, Beardsley, Shearer etc... in my list. It wasn't just based on England performances. Goals aren't everything. David Platt got 27, Shearer got 30. So Platt was nearly as good a goalscorer as Shearer. Most of your arguments are based on Lineker's 48 England goals. Why are the best two English strikers of the last 50 years ALWAYS mentioned as being Jimmy Greaves and Alan Shearer. Why isn't Lineker mentioned? I'll tell you why because he was a good scorer, his positioning was second to none, but THAT IS ALL he had to his game. Once he got the hepatitis I knew he was basically finished, because without pace he was nothing. Put it this way anyone of us here could've scored his hattrick against Poland, anyone. Three tap ins created by Beardsley and Trevor Steven. If he hadn't have scored any that day England were going home, he doesn't get his move to Barcelona, and he ends up with 0 goals in the competition and stuck rotting at Everton. He was a lucky player. Stuck rotting at Everton? Everton were one of the top clubs in England & Europe at the time. He scored 38 goals in 52 games for the club. I wouldn't call that rotting away. It's easy to criticise him because he never did much outside the box and say he relied on service but when you're such a phenomenal goalscorer you don't need to do anything else and when you're playing for a top team you don't have to worry about the service being provided. Throughout history there have always been players of that ilk and they always play for the top clubs. That's not a coincidence. It's not like he was found out at Barca either. He was one of their best players, had a great goal scoring record and won trophies. Same story when he came back to England with Spurs. I think you've got a VERY warped view on Lineker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think Lineker was nothing without Beardsley, nothing. He said the same himself, he was nothing other than a good moocher. Fair enough he scored a hattrick in "El Classico" but all his goals were tap ins, he'd never be above the likes of Barnes, Beardsley, Shearer etc... in my list. It wasn't just based on England performances. Goals aren't everything. David Platt got 27, Shearer got 30. So Platt was nearly as good a goalscorer as Shearer. Most of your arguments are based on Lineker's 48 England goals. Why are the best two English strikers of the last 50 years ALWAYS mentioned as being Jimmy Greaves and Alan Shearer. Why isn't Lineker mentioned? I'll tell you why because he was a good scorer, his positioning was second to none, but THAT IS ALL he had to his game. Once he got the hepatitis I knew he was basically finished, because without pace he was nothing. Put it this way anyone of us here could've scored his hattrick against Poland, anyone. Three tap ins created by Beardsley and Trevor Steven. If he hadn't have scored any that day England were going home, he doesn't get his move to Barcelona, and he ends up with 0 goals in the competition and stuck rotting at Everton. He was a lucky player. Stuck rotting at Everton? Everton were one of the top clubs in England & Europe at the time. He scored 38 goals in 52 games for the club. I wouldn't call that rotting away. It's easy to criticise him because he never did much outside the box and say he relied on service but when you're such a phenomenal goalscorer you don't need to do anything else and when you're playing for a top team you don't have to worry about the service being provided. Throughout history there have always been players of that ilk and they always play for the top clubs. That's not a coincidence. It's not like he was found out at Barca either. He was one of their best players, had a great goal scoring record and won trophies. Same story when he came back to England with Spurs. I think you've got a VERY warped view on Lineker. Sometimes I think Stevie doesn't realise football existed before 1992. Everton truly were one of the top clubs at the time, and if it hadn't been for Liverpool getting English clubs banned, for my money that Everton side were a stick-on to win the European Cup at some point. He probably thinks you're the size of Plymouth or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Shearer Rooney Gerrard Adams Gascoigne Platt Robson Lampard Beardsley Steven Always thought Trevor Steven was very under-rated. Wouldn't have Beckham anywhere near the list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think Lineker was nothing without Beardsley, nothing. He said the same himself, he was nothing other than a good moocher. Fair enough he scored a hattrick in "El Classico" but all his goals were tap ins, he'd never be above the likes of Barnes, Beardsley, Shearer etc... in my list. It wasn't just based on England performances. Goals aren't everything. David Platt got 27, Shearer got 30. So Platt was nearly as good a goalscorer as Shearer. Most of your arguments are based on Lineker's 48 England goals. Why are the best two English strikers of the last 50 years ALWAYS mentioned as being Jimmy Greaves and Alan Shearer. Why isn't Lineker mentioned? I'll tell you why because he was a good scorer, his positioning was second to none, but THAT IS ALL he had to his game. Once he got the hepatitis I knew he was basically finished, because without pace he was nothing. Put it this way anyone of us here could've scored his hattrick against Poland, anyone. Three tap ins created by Beardsley and Trevor Steven. If he hadn't have scored any that day England were going home, he doesn't get his move to Barcelona, and he ends up with 0 goals in the competition and stuck rotting at Everton. He was a lucky player. Stuck rotting at Everton? Everton were one of the top clubs in England & Europe at the time. He scored 38 goals in 52 games for the club. I wouldn't call that rotting away. It's easy to criticise him because he never did much outside the box and say he relied on service but when you're such a phenomenal goalscorer you don't need to do anything else and when you're playing for a top team you don't have to worry about the service being provided. Throughout history there have always been players of that ilk and they always play for the top clubs. That's not a coincidence. It's not like he was found out at Barca either. He was one of their best players, had a great goal scoring record and won trophies. Same story when he came back to England with Spurs. I think you've got a VERY warped view on Lineker. Firstly I'm not rubbishing Everton as a club or their achievements in the mid 80's, but let's face it in 1986 because of what THEY did in Brussels, English football was on it's arse. People were even choosing to sign for Rangers over your own club because the league was becoming stale, during the course of the 5 year ban, fantastic players at their peak never got the opportunity to play in Europe because of those bastards, and yes I include Beardsley and John Barnes in that. The likes of Trevor Steven had to go to other countries. Our football fell years behind. Look at how well English football has adapted to a foreign approach. From 1985-1990, there was no learning curve, we were stuck and yes I use the term "rotting away", because that's what we were. He wasn't found at Barca, you're right. Spanish football wasn't what it is today though, yes it was a good league, but in Lineker's first season he played in a Barca team which lost in the Nou Camp to wait for it....DUNDEE UNITED. I'm of the age where I can remember all football from 1984 to now vividly. Statisticians can look back at Lineker's record favourably, but his sharpness in the box was all he had, and his sense of positioning. They're two things that are almost unteachable, but I'm sorry like I'm sure Lineker himself would admit, he wasn't as good an all round footballer as Alan Shearer. See when he got the hepatitis, he lost a lot of pace, it was around the Euro 88 time, and while his record after then was still decent he was never the same again but he did get a lot back after his recovery and move back to England. He knew it was right to retire at 32 as well, because his pace was going all the time, and like with Michael Owen, and Bellamy, no pace = no good, Shearer on the other hand lost his pace after he f***** his knee at Goodison, yet still he went on to score another 150 goals for the toon. My view of Lineker isn't warped, I'm going off him as a player, not statistical analysis of his goalscoring record. He was a good striker, very much in the Pippo Inzaghi mould, but he would never be in my top 10 English players of the last 25 years. Sometimes I think Stevie doesn't realise football existed before 1992. Everton truly were one of the top clubs at the time, and if it hadn't been for Liverpool getting English clubs banned, for my money that Everton side were a stick-on to win the European Cup at some point. He probably thinks you're the size of Plymouth or something. All I'm going to say is, ye fuckin cheeky prick. No one on this board writes about pre-1992 more than me on this board, even NE5 who is over 40, so don't patronise me ya daft c***. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Any need Stevie? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Any need Stevie? Clearly provoked tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Any need Stevie? Every need. If someone tries to embarrass you in the street, would you let them get away with it. There is no doubt he was being cheeky, and in this instance, his point, you know FINE WELL nothing could be further than the truth. So just ban me again, in your admin forum thing, I'm not arsed, I'll just go back to Toontastic. pre-1992 can't believe the audacity of him saying that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Erm, we're not on the street. Abuse whoever you like via PM. He was looking for a bite and you duly obliged. It's not that hard to work out. You often make excellent posts without resorting to this nonsense, why not keep it that way? blueyes.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 keegan bandwagon jumpers, all of you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rushian Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Barnes Scholes Beardsley Shearer Robson Pearce Lineker Hoddle Waddle Gerrard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Stevie, it was gentle ribbing based on your frequent arguments that pretty much everybody is a small club, not exactly controversial, hardly the most mortal of insults, and certainly not designed to cause upset (and for what its worth, i wasn't even remotely offended by your reply, so there's no real need for anyone to assume it was offensive). Don't take things quite so seriously, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I only ever saw Lineker in highlights etc. but from what I saw, he wasn't the greatest player, goalscorer perhaps but even Sir Bobby said he was a limited player. I thought this thread was about talent anyway and not achievements and so on. That's why I included Mcmanaman because he has amazing talent, more than most. Regarding Steven Gerrard, I don't know why people put him down, people say he hasn't done it at the biggest level, people forget the Premiership is the highest level along with the CL, jam packed with world-class players which he faces weekl in week out and often comes out on top against, many of today's greats don't do it for their country, just look at Ronaldinho, so looking at that won't confirm or deny anything really. If you strip away stuff like that and look at Gerrard purely as an individual footballer than there aren't many if any at all, better central midfielders in the world, not at what he does anyway. He's a fantastic player, I would kill for a player like him in our midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 How did you only see highlights of Lineker? Did you not watch the 1990 World Cup even? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 How did you only see highlights of Lineker? Did you not watch the 1990 World Cup even? NO Well, vaguely, I remember it being on but while people were cramped around the telly, I was playing with my Transformers in the corner wondering just what all the fuss was about. I will never forget Italia 90 though, because my mother bought me and my brother these god awful England shell suits that were fake on the back of it I truly am a Sky generation fan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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