Wullie Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us Neither have you. I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all. Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........ I've seen him play every time he has as well. Since Glenn Roeder took over, that's 90 minutes total, made up of substitute appearances - often at the back end of games which are either already lost or we've been hanging on and not attacking. I refuse to judge a player on that. We didn't lose that many under Roeder? I refuse to accept that he deserves to be starting based on his (admittedly limited) performances. If he can't show some individual talent in the time he's had, he's not worth it. I personally want rid. I realise that i am Officially Wrong about that, and that he should be given 400 consecutive games, and NEVER judged until he's good, but fuck it, thats how i feel. I feel angery when a supposedly great player turns out to be a waster, but shit happens. Until people stop twisting words and making stuff up, this debate is not worth having anymore tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us Neither have you. I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all. Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........ I've seen him play every time he has as well. Since Glenn Roeder took over, that's 90 minutes total, made up of substitute appearances - often at the back end of games which are either already lost or we've been hanging on and not attacking. I refuse to judge a player on that. We didn't lose that many under Roeder? I refuse to accept that he deserves to be starting based on his (admittedly limited) performances. If he can't show some individual talent in the time he's had, he's not worth it. I personally want rid. I realise that i am Officially Wrong about that, and that he should be given 400 consecutive games, and NEVER judged until he's good, but **** it, thats how i feel. I feel angery when a supposedly great player turns out to be a waster, but shit happens. Until people stop twisting words and making stuff up, this debate is not worth having anymore tbh. Making stuff up like him having shown something worth persevering with? Or like him being a world class player> Or like him needing time to "adapt" to a game played on the same sized pitch, with the same sized ball, number of players, and rules, as where he came from? Or like a player needing time to adjust to this league, despite being so amazing a talent?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 The debate comes down to one simple issue: whether or not you think he's had enough time on the field (fit and under a manager who is not dragging every single one of them down) for his ability and worth to NUFC to be judged. 90 minutes, spread across 6 games. Some think that's enough to judge a player. Some don't. And we will never agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us Neither have you. I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all. Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........ My point is, even though he's hasn't been great, he's been no better or worse in his short time than Ameobi & Chopra. Luque has the ability which given a good run of games I'm sure he can reproduce the sort of form he showed in Spain...Shola & Chopra have never shown that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us Neither have you. I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all. Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........ My point is, even though he's hasn't been great, he's been no better or worse in his short time than Ameobi & Chopra. Luque has the ability which given a good run of games I'm sure he can reproduce the sort of form he showed in Spain...Shola & Chopra have never shown that. I agree inasmuch as Chopra and Ameobi also have no place in our team. But to fall back on the "he has ability" thing is not good enough. If he has THAT much, why can't he show more even in a short time? Other subs seem to manage it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us Neither have you. I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all. Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........ My point is, even though he's hasn't been great, he's been no better or worse in his short time than Ameobi & Chopra. Luque has the ability which given a good run of games I'm sure he can reproduce the sort of form he showed in Spain...Shola & Chopra have never shown that. I agree inasmuch as Chopra and Ameobi also have no place in our team. But to fall back on the "he has ability" thing is not good enough. If he has THAT much, why can't he show more even in a short time? Other subs seem to manage it. Well in 65 minutes of football he's scored 2 goals (albeit one a friendly but when he hasn't had an appearance competitively since Sunderland, it's difficult to say whether he's improved or not). That can surely do his confidence no harm can it? He'll also have the benefit of a full pre-season with the squad this summer unlike last year where he came in at the end of August not match-fit, and judging by the way he was carrying on with Ferdinand, Lee, Shearer, etc. on Thursday night, it also looks like he's willing to make the effort to adapt. I still say he deserves a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Living Legend Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Give him full pre-season, get his confidence high and he will come good. He's much better than people think, it's just matter of him settling in British football.. and Newcastle's football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Well, i don't, but it's not up to us, is it? If he remains, he will get my full and vocal support home and away, obviously. But i'm not convinced he will or should stay, me. I wish to fuck we'd bought Ashton instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Am I the only one that thinks he did quite good before he was injured? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 you know if he'd of scored that chance he created past Ferdinand against MAnure I'm sure a lot of people's opinion of him would be different. Fact is he didn't, shows what a fine line there is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Give him full pre-season, get his confidence high and he will come good. He's much better than people think, it's just matter of him settling in British football.. and Newcastle's football. Bit football is still football. We shoudl expect more than we've had from him, surely?? Or am i exoecting too much from a supposedly great player?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Am I the only one that thinks he did quite good before he was injured? No you're not, I thought he did OK although even as early as the Fulham game he was getting stick from the Milburn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Give him full pre-season, get his confidence high and he will come good. He's much better than people think, it's just matter of him settling in British football.. and Newcastle's football. Bit football is still football. We shoudl expect more than we've had from him, surely?? Or am i exoecting too much from a supposedly great player?? Totally different I know, but when I was studying out in Spain, I was on a team of Italians in the Uni 5-a-side tournament playing against Spanish students. I only played 10 minutes but in that time I could do f*ck all right. One factor was that you're trying to translate what's going on around you at the same time as trying to concentrate on playing football, plus they're brought up playing a different way. The other factor was I was f*cking sh*t whether I played in Dunston, Spain or Pluto anyway, but I sort of know what's it's like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Bit football is still football. We shoudl expect more than we've had from him, surely?? Or am i exoecting too much from a supposedly great player?? I think you are "bitter" with the transfer fee we pay him. Supposed if we pay 3 Millions for Luque, would you be happy to get player of his class (that he has shown)? Overally, Luque definitely offers no less than Faye, Ameobi and Clark in the past few games, in my opinion. Unless we have gotten rid of other worse players, I wouldn't place my critisms on Luque who has scored goals in situations when no other seem capable to. Now, taking his price and reputation into consideration, I think that Roeder is being silly/stubborn for not offering him more chances when he seems interested. Maybe Roeder has other plans for him. But so far I don't know, and no one else knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 two good goals his last two games, atleast he's shown talent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Bit football is still football. We shoudl expect more than we've had from him, surely?? Or am i exoecting too much from a supposedly great player?? I think you are "bitter" with the transfer fee we pay him. Supposed if we pay 3 Millions for Luque, would you be happy to get player of his class (that he has shown)? Overally, Luque definitely offers no less than Faye, Ameobi and Clark in the past few games, in my opinion. Unless we have gotten rid of other worse players, I wouldn't place my critisms on Luque who has scored goals in situations when no other seem capable to. Now, taking his price and reputation into consideration, I think that Roeder is being silly/stubborn for not offering him more chances when he seems interested. Maybe Roeder has other plans for him. But so far I don't know, and no one else knows. I think you know fuck all about why i am not pro-Luque. How has he scored goals when others were not capable?? Taking his price and reputation into account??? For fucks sake. Thats exactly why we'll never be a proper big cluib, and we'll keep making excuses for Luque, Boumsong, Dyer and the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I think you know **** all about why i am not pro-Luque. Sorry I have lost interest discussing with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I think you know **** all about why i am not pro-Luque. Sorry I have lost interest discussing with you. Oh, thats a shame, because your absolutely groundless statement about why i didn't like Luque, in total disregard for the numerous reasons i had already given, made me REALLY interested in discussing stuff with you. I doubt you've even seen him play for us in the flesh, but you seem qualified to speak about the way he plays. Let me guess, you think you can get as good an idea from the TV? Wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/913/thebook0jd.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I think one good reason to play him is the comparatively poorer/inauspicious starts players like Henry, Pires and Reyes had to their Premiership players. If he's kack, and he hasn't looked like a world-beater yet, then shift him off. But what we don't need is to be in a what if situation, as in what if we had given him more time and at his next club he becomes awesome. I DO believe the stuff about the injury and settling, there are many instances of confidence players, maybe he is one and he has every reason to be low on it at the minute. In the last two appearances he made, he looked like he could make a difference- much more so than Chopra in my opinion. I think Roeder has likely marked him down as someone with a bad attitude (I wonder what role Shearer had in this?) or something so is overlooking him, but he might look mank in training, who cares/knows. Point is, we paid a lot of money, he hasn't been given a fair chance- if Ameobi can blossom after looking terrible 90% of the time, I have confidence Luque can. I think a big reason is the fact that he is totally not suited to long-ball football, which we play a lot of the time. With him and Owen up front we'd have to pass it about and then I think he'd excel. I think people who simply dismiss him are missing a trick and overlooking a potential gem- why splash out another big sum for Shearer's replacement and make a loss on Luque, when we can try and nurture/encourage him over 6 months/a season and see if he comes good? His value can't get much lower than what it is now, and besides his reputation in Spain will remain intact for another season at least, in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/913/thebook0jd.jpg Is there any fucking call for that? I'm giving my opinion, which i accept are no more or less valid than anyone elses. I like to debate stuff, and talk about my and other peoples opinions. What i don't particularly want, is people like you acting like pricks, which i think your unnecessary and off-topic "contrinution" is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/913/thebook0jd.jpg Good ole Carnegie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Is there any fucking call for that? I'm giving my opinion, which i accept are no more or less valid than anyone elses. I like to debate stuff, and talk about my and other peoples opinions. hahaha what? Not three posts prior: I doubt you've even seen him play for us in the flesh, but you seem qualified to speak about the way he plays. Let me guess, you think you can get as good an idea from the TV? Wrong. Honestly you're taking this way, way too seriously. No harm intended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I think you know **** all about why i am not pro-Luque. Sorry I have lost interest discussing with you. Oh, thats a shame, because your absolutely groundless statement about why i didn't like Luque, in total disregard for the numerous reasons i had already given, made me REALLY interested in discussing stuff with you. I doubt you've even seen him play for us in the flesh, but you seem qualified to speak about the way he plays. Let me guess, you think you can get as good an idea from the TV? Wrong. I'll speak up for Delima coz he has said it before. Yes you are wrong! He has watched Luque in St James and so have others (wullie, a few others and me included). Stop this patronizing attitude that if others disagree with you they must have either watched the game on tv or based their opinion on the "famous showreel". Accept that others watching the same games you do (yes live in the flesh) can come to different conclusions. So much for willing to accept that your argument are no more or less valid than others' :roll: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I think you know **** all about why i am not pro-Luque. Sorry I have lost interest discussing with you. Oh, thats a shame, because your absolutely groundless statement about why i didn't like Luque, in total disregard for the numerous reasons i had already given, made me REALLY interested in discussing stuff with you. I doubt you've even seen him play for us in the flesh, but you seem qualified to speak about the way he plays. Let me guess, you think you can get as good an idea from the TV? Wrong. I'll speak up for Delima coz he has said it before. Yes you are wrong! He studies in Newcastle and have watched Luque in St James and so have others (wullie, a few others and me included). Stop this patronizing attitude that if others disagree with you they must have either watched the game on tv or based their opinion on the "famous showreel". Accept that others watching the same games you do (yes live in the flesh) can come to different conclusions. So much for willing to accept that your argument are no more or less valid than others' :roll: I stand by my point - others opinions are as valid as mine. And watching the game on the telly doe sNOT gove you as good a view of what happens as being there in the flesh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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