Hall to sell shares?

[Guest bobjonson]

no offence to those that are posting about world cup today etc, but this could turn out to be one of the most important days in NUFC's history, and no one's made a comment??

 

think this may affect our spending like.

[Optimistic Nut]

Go for it. If it means even a slim chance of of us being able to have the funds to compete with the top 4 it's worth a gamble.

[Guest bobjonson]

no mention of who it is though, could be ffs looking to take over all controll?

[macbeth]

In the last published accoutns there is a note hich I've copeid below:

 

If someone buys 25% of the club then the decides to impose their own CEO or chairman then both Freddie Shepherd and Douglas Hall's contract beocme terminable on 3 months notice by them. At the end of this 3 motnh notice period they would m each be due compensation of 2 years salary. This would be £1m for Shepherd, and £900,000 for Hall, plus any other benefits they woudl be due.

 

In normal circumstances both Hall and Shepherd have to give two years notice of their desire to stand down from their jobs.

 

____________

 

This is separate from any other share-buying rules. So for example if someone can buy up to 29.9% of the club before being forced by financial rules to actually buy the whole lot. It was always felt that Sir John Hall's ownership of 28.8% was very carefully sized to allow someone to buy them all wthout having to go for the full 100%. Douglas Hall (and his sister Alison) through Cameron Hall owns roughly a further 13% of the shares. The Shepherds own roughly 28% of the shares.

 

 

[toontownman]

Bob Murray returns to the fold.

[Kasper]

Interesting times ahead blueeek.gif

[NE5]

 

 

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?

 

 

 

The recession.

 

Try again.

 

Is this takeover what you dreamed of, if it happened ? Anyone but Shepherd. Do you think it would be better for the club ?

 

 

 

So the country being in recession between 1990 and 1992 wouldn't have had anything to do with people not buying into the club?  I guess that the state of the country at the time doesn't fit with your argument.

 

Here's a graph to highlight just what happens during recession.  For your benefit GDP is what is produced within this country, if we're not producing then people are not working.  If people are not working they don't get paid.  If they don't get paid they don't buy things, lesson over.

 

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3505/economicgrowth161kq.th.gif

 

So a recession of a few years was responsible for 30 years of unacheivement at Newcastle United the culminated in a failed share issue which was cancelled due to lack of interest.

 

Did you put in to buy some Mick ? You didn't, didn't you.

 

Look at Newcastle's crowds in the time leading up to the share issue. Were they low because of a recession. I was there, I put in my 100 quid to buy shares, and it was returned. You were not, it would appear.

 

By far the most stupid and deluded excuse you have made yet. It even beats your comment that we weren't a selling club when we sold Waddle, Gazza and Beardsley in the 80's. Rubbish.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?

 

 

The recession.

 

Try again.

 

Is this takeover what you dreamed of, if it happened ? Anyone but Shepherd. Do you think it would be better for the club ?

 

 

Try working it out from what I've already posted, I'm not going to spell it out for you.

 

So what do you know of the failed share isse ? Did your dad tell you he didn't go to watch the club for years because there was a recession or buy shares for the same reason. Nowt to do with the club being run like the mackems have been then ?

 

Oh God save me from these youngsters who think they know about the club back in those days.

 

 

[NE5]

 

 

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?

 

 

 

The recession.

 

dont think so?

 

early 90's?

 

Do you mean the early 90s when Britain was in the last major recession, or some other early 90s?

 

The recession of the early 90s hit small businesses hard. In 1992 9,000 businesses went into receivership, compared to 1,100 last year. Voluntary liquidations peaked at 14,000 then, compared to just 9,000 in 2000.

 

Source: http://www.startups.co.uk/How_to_survive_a_recession.YUxKI4loHWUGSg.html

 

 

he might mean a recession that lasted only in the Newcastle area from the end of the 1950's until 1992 ?

 

 

 

History not your striong point NE5?

 

What is your strong point, by the way?

 

History of the football club is most definitely a strong point. You couldn't even tell when I was taking the piss could you ? What a laugh.

 

Knowledge of the club isn't your strong point is it indigo ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Northern Monkey]

 

 

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?

 

 

 

The recession.

 

dont think so?

 

early 90's?

 

Do you mean the early 90s when Britain was in the last major recession, or some other early 90s?

 

The recession of the early 90s hit small businesses hard. In 1992 9,000 businesses went into receivership, compared to 1,100 last year. Voluntary liquidations peaked at 14,000 then, compared to just 9,000 in 2000.

 

Source: http://www.startups.co.uk/How_to_survive_a_recession.YUxKI4loHWUGSg.html

 

 

he might mean a recession that lasted only in the Newcastle area from the end of the 1950's until 1992 ?

 

 

 

History not your striong point NE5?

 

What is your strong point, by the way?

 

History of the football club is most definitely a strong point. You couldn't even tell when I was taking the piss could you ? What a laugh.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not laughing. There's people put there who think football started in 1992, and Shepherd is marginally worse than Vlad The Impaler.

 

This makes me sad, not all happy and laughy and that.

[NE5]

 

 

Also, what do you have to say about bob pointing out that the club had already tried your suggestion ? And what is your opinion on the reason for it crashing so badly ?

 

 

 

The recession.

 

dont think so?

 

early 90's?

 

Do you mean the early 90s when Britain was in the last major recession, or some other early 90s?

 

The recession of the early 90s hit small businesses hard. In 1992 9,000 businesses went into receivership, compared to 1,100 last year. Voluntary liquidations peaked at 14,000 then, compared to just 9,000 in 2000.

 

Source: http://www.startups.co.uk/How_to_survive_a_recession.YUxKI4loHWUGSg.html

 

 

he might mean a recession that lasted only in the Newcastle area from the end of the 1950's until 1992 ?

 

 

 

History not your striong point NE5?

 

What is your strong point, by the way?

 

History of the football club is most definitely a strong point. You couldn't even tell when I was taking the piss could you ? What a laugh.

 

 

I'm not laughing. There's people put there who think football started in 1992, and Shepherd is marginally worse than Vlad The Impaler.

 

This makes me sad, not all happy and laughy and that.

 

I'm not laughing either, really. But these people ARE a joke.

 

 

[Northern Monkey]

Oh, no denying that.

 

Still, i'm sure they expect a philanthropist to buy into the club, spend a gazillion pounds on players, get Hitzfeld as manager, and give free crack and whores away with the matchday programme.

 

Idiots.

[Guest Living Legend]

This board is becoming really aggressive, I must say  bluebiggrin.gif

 

Some serious abuse in EVERY topic nowadays, but well.. It just makes it more interesting.

 

(Waiting to be abused.. again)  bluebiggrin.gif

[Martin Lol]

The two words that I picked up on were hedge fund.

 

I've seen discussions about them in the past, basically they seem to be instant moneymakers and asset strippers rather than investors for the future if I recall correctly.  There should be people her more qualified than me on economics/big business matters but the impression I gained was that ownership of the club by a company of that nature would not be necessarily beneficial if you're looking for progress.  Why have a Michael Owen when you can have a Shola Ameobi and £15m in the bank?

 

Do u think Ameobi is a worse player than the arrogant Egyptian or the polish shit you had upfront?

 

People like you exists on our boards to enjoy taking cheap shots on our players, our management, even our future transfers or future money invested in our club..

 

 

 

If you care to read it again, you'll see I'm not taking cheap shots at the players, management or structure, simply voicing concern over the nature of the potential buyers, a concern subsequently shared by a number of your fellow fans.  If you are unable to comprehend the distinction between the two without your brain aching, you have my deepest sympathy.  I wouldn't wish that affliction on anybody.

 

 

 

The amount of negative opinions you had on these boards to every nufc related topic is beyond belief!

 

Ameobi has nothing to do with any future investment in our club. He is a squad player who plays his heart out for this club. Your arrogance and ignorance are the two faces u have shown here since you joined this forum.

 

Sympathy to me! thanx spurs fan! one more cheap shot to a nufc fan, it seems this is your personal style in life.

 

 

 

 

My negativity towards NUFC ceased with the departure of Souness.  Once he was jogged on, the future took on a far brighter perspective and that has always been my view.  My comments to Ameobi were in no way derogitory to the player but an acknowledgement that a hedge fund will seek to maximise returns on the investment.  As an example, selling Michael Owen and filling his place with Shola Ameobi would still leave Newcastle with a striker but also with £15m in the bank.  Ameobi may not be the quality of striker that you as a fan would wish to be first choice, but the possibility of a hedge fund saying that you need a striker, you have a striker would be very real.  Matt's said yesterday Four words that should send a warning to those who think this investment would be a good thing- "sale and lease back". I very much agree with those sentiments.

 

Before last year I had never heard the phrase 'hedge fund'.  Then I heard that an American hedge fund was interested in buying Spurs but Levy turned it down as it was not in Tottenham's long term best interests for the club to be sold.  It was around that time that city fellas gave a better insight into how a hedge fund works.  I don't know whether this is the same hedge fund that has now has aproached SJH but the general concept does not fill me with cheer.

 

Cheap shot at a NUFC fan?  You couldn't be further from the truth.  I sincerely hope that 'hedge fund' doesn't come back to haunt to in the future.

[toontownman]

Sir John has always had the best interests of the club at heart, i would find it hard to believe he would leave us in a bad position.

 

He doesnt need the money and has already turned down various bids. I'd hope that he would be thinking about the future of the club he has always supported.

 

If it was about the money im sure there would be better bids to be sought after. But maybe thats alot more hopefull than fact, and seeing as we know next to nothing we will just have to sit tight and wait.

[Guest smoggeordie]

Sir John has always had the best interests of the club at heart, i would find it hard to believe he would leave us in a bad position.

 

He doesnt need the money and has already turned down various bids. I'd hope that he would be thinking about the future of the club he has always supported.

 

If it was about the money im sure there would be better bids to be sought after. But maybe thats alot more hopefull than fact, and seeing as we know next to nothing we will just have to sit tight and wait.

 

Agreed, I'm sure Hall would want to know thoroughly what their intentions are for the club and wouldn't just sell us to some willy nilly without making sure 100% that it's the right thing for the club.

[macbeth]

Last summer there was a similarly reported approach.

 

One allegation made was that this was done to boost the share price to help the Cameron Hall business. The 'logic' of this allegation story is as follows ...

 

Cameron Hall as a company have had severe problems. There last financial reports were from November 2003, but not published until June 2005. At that point they owed over £10m and had £300,000 money in the bank, and seemingly no sales. The only asset Cameron Hall had was the NUFC shares owned.

 

Cameron Hall would have to pay off its debts, probably by guranteeing them against the NUFC shares they owned. How much the business that is Cameron Hall is worth is totally defined by the share price of the NUFC shares.

 

So if the share price is 40p then Cameron Hall has assets of £2.4m. If the share price goes up to say 60p then suddenly Cameron Hall is worth £3.6m. The amount of interest Cameron Hall will be paying on their debts will probably being recalculated each year on the basis of how good a debt they are, so how much they have in the way of assets. If they had no assets then the banks would be wanting them to pay more interest as they would be viewed as a higher risk. The more they have in the way of assets the lower the risk the the lenders, and probably the lower the interest rate charged.

 

Now it may be totally coincidental that the last approach made for shares was in July last year, and it is late June this year. Or it may be that the loan recalculation is around this time ? Last year the share price went up about 50% due to the specualtion. This morning it is up but to a lesser degreee than last year, and with few shares being traded.

 

Last year it took to November for Sir John to confirm that no deal was going to be done.

[Northern Monkey]

Last summer there was a similarly reported approach.

 

One allegation made was that this was done to boost the share price to help the Cameron Hall business. The 'logic' of this allegation story is as follows ...

 

Cameron Hall as a company have had severe problems. There last financial reports were from November 2003, but not published until June 2005. At that point they owed over £10m and had £300,000 money in the bank, and seemingly no sales. The only asset Cameron Hall had was the NUFC shares owned.

 

Cameron Hall would have to pay off its debts, probably by guranteeing them against the NUFC shares they owned. How much the business that is Cameron Hall is worth is totally defined by the share price of the NUFC shares.

 

So if the share price is 40p then Cameron Hall has assets of £2.4m. If the share price goes up to say 60p then suddenly Cameron Hall is worth £3.6m. The amount of interest Cameron Hall will be paying on their debts will probably being recalculated each year on the basis of how good a debt they are, so how much they have in the way of assets. If they had no assets then the banks would be wanting them to pay more interest as they would be viewed as a higher risk. The more they have in the way of assets the lower the risk the the lenders, and probably the lower the interest rate charged.

 

Now it may be totally coincidental that the last approach made for shares was in July last year, and it is late June this year. Or it may be that the loan recalculation is around this time ? Last year the share price went up about 50% due to the specualtion. This morning it is up but to a lesser degreee than last year, and with few shares being traded.

 

Last year it took to November for Sir John to confirm that no deal was going to be done.

 

And the FBI flew those planes into the twin towers?

[Tom_NUFC]

Not much for me to say really, except that I'd be very cautious of this until we know exactly what's happening, unfortunately, when we know that, the damage could be done.

 

I'm not up on the world of finance, so I can only go on what other people are saying, and to me, I don't like the sound of 'hedge funds', but that's just me relying on what people are saying.

[Matt]

Macbeth, was it not generally accepted that the bid last year was Kia Joorabchian and MSI- only for them to be scared off by a ludicrous asking price. A few months later the episode repeated itself at West Ham, with Brown putting a huge price tag on the Hammers.

[Rob W]

same at Villa

[macbeth]

The comments about the attempted/failed share issue in 1990/91 are all a bit harsh.

 

No one wanted to invest in football clubs in those days. Micheal Knighton had agreed to buy Man for £20m in 1989 before pulling pout when it became "obvious" it wasn't a worthwhile invetsment 

 

That NUFC playing in the then 2nd division could raise £4m doesn't look unreasonable to me.

 

In 1990 the whole idea of owning shares was still something viewed as something rich people did. The only shares owned that may have been owned would be those from BT or British Gas being privatised.

 

The mortgage interest rate at the time of the flotation was 11.5% (http://www.moneyextra.com/dictionary/Interest-rate-history-003455.html) which would mean that the payments woudl be roughly doubly what they are today !!! Just imagine how much less spare cash would be around if you had to double your mortgage payment.

 

It is very interesting to recall the sort of ideals that John Hall has at the time. He wanted no one to own more than 10% of all the shares, to stop the situation arising again where one person/family could do what they wanted, as he coudl see how badly that had effected the club. He also wanted no dividends to be paid, although there had not been for at least 5 years prior to that so that was not a new idea.

 

An interesting take on the failure of that flotation is that John Hall as the major shareholder at the time (~60%) either failed badly in selling the flotation to the public, or really didn't want it to suceed.

[macbeth]

Macbeth, was it not generally accepted that the bid last year was Kia Joorabchian and MSI- only for them to be scared off by a ludicrous asking price. A few months later the episode repeated itself at West Ham, with Brown putting a huge price tag on the Hammers.

 

Could well be, I wouldn't disagree with that, I was just passing on what I'd heard

[Guest bobjonson]

Macbeth, was it not generally accepted that the bid last year was Kia Joorabchian and MSI- only for them to be scared off by a ludicrous asking price. A few months later the episode repeated itself at West Ham, with Brown putting a huge price tag on the Hammers.

 

Could well be, I wouldn't disagree with that, I was just passing on what I'd heard

 

but we dont know though.

 

as I said earlier it could even be FFS wanting to own the club outright

[madras]

it'll be a test of hall's feelings for the club..sell out regardless to make a killing,or sell in the interests of the club.

 

remember halls (wynyard)stake is 28.8%,way short of a majority.

 

i'm also lead to believe that normally in a take over bid the party looking to take over will sweep up "loose" shares to see what movement this has on the share price,in order to gauge it's bid,this hasn't happenend in this case,so i wonder if it is a takeover bid or a calculated risk by an investor looking to buy at a low price into sector it can see growing(rumours of the next tv deal being done individually still abound,and nufc at a low price would be a decent punt on those terms)