Jump to content

SJP development plans that never happened/future development debate


Guest Howaythetoon

Recommended Posts

stadium development that never happened.................................

 

reinstatement of the 10minute flag

bogs that expanded so we could all go at half time

the seat in front of me being empty all the time so i could rest my feet on his chair

some sort of decoration/toon mural on the staircases inside SJP

some sort of decoration/toon mural on the cold grey exterior of SJP,we should use that space to shout loud and proud who we are,remember the corrugated iron stand with "NEWCASTLE UNITED" all the way down it?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't there a problem with the foundations in the gallowgate? Like we can't extend it because the ground around the end isn't strong enough?

 

*cough*

 

Metro- an excuse dreamed up by Freddie Fletcher towards the end of his reign. It's really not an issue for an imaginsative engineer. Just remember what's sitting on top of the metro line as it runs from haymarket-monument-central!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest smoggeordie

Wasn't there a problem with the foundations in the gallowgate? Like we can't extend it because the ground around the end isn't strong enough?

 

*cough*

 

Metro- an excuse dreamed up by Freddie Fletcher towards the end of his reign. It's really not an issue for an imaginsative engineer. Just remember what's sitting on top of the metro line as it runs from haymarket-monument-central!

 

Think I can be arsed reading EVERY post? ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

 

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

 

Because they knew what kind of negative impact it would have on the city center economy.

 

the main reason why it was thrown out was due to objections made regarding the landscape, the historical impact of Leazes Park and the notion that it was a "beauty spot". The decision was made by the Heritage Department to turn the project down, due to mass canvassing etc from the Greenpeace etc type loonies, including a few mackems I would guess, it had nothing to do - officially - with the impact on the economy of the city on match days.

 

However, that IS a major consideration. And so, if it had been up to me, I would have told the council that they will give permission to build that ground at Castle Leazes, or I would move the club lock, stock and barrel out of the city centre to somewhere where all the trade would be lost, estimated at 8m quid, which is what I read somewhere.

 

I reckon they would have shit their pants and gave permission when they got the message that Sir John etc meant what they said.

 

And now, we would be better off for it. Progress.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't there a problem with the foundations in the gallowgate? Like we can't extend it because the ground around the end isn't strong enough?

 

*cough*

 

Metro- an excuse dreamed up by Freddie Fletcher towards the end of his reign. It's really not an issue for an imaginsative engineer. Just remember what's sitting on top of the metro line as it runs from haymarket-monument-central!

 

True, but those buildings were there before the Metro. I'd imagine it would be much harder to build something the size we want the Gallowgate to be, on top of the Metro.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, Castle Leazes - SJP through the park is what, a five, maybe ten minute walk? Hardly moving out of the centre, the trade loss would be minimal.

 

Congratulations ....  :winking:

 

As I've said all through the thread .....

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't there a problem with the foundations in the gallowgate? Like we can't extend it because the ground around the end isn't strong enough?

 

*cough*

 

Metro- an excuse dreamed up by Freddie Fletcher towards the end of his reign. It's really not an issue for an imaginsative engineer. Just remember what's sitting on top of the metro line as it runs from haymarket-monument-central!

isnt blackett street on top of it........................anyway the story always goes that it would be more expensive,prohibitivly,not impossible,just not easy to claw the money back.
Link to post
Share on other sites
True, but those buildings were there before the Metro. I'd imagine it would be much harder to build something the size we want the Gallowgate to be, on top of the Metro.

 

Actually that would make it harder- as it involves tunnelling under existing foundations. This would be working foundations around the known weakness (the Metro tunnel).

 

What was crucially expensive about building 'over the top' is that you are massively hampered by the fact 50,000 people would be turning up once or twice a week and you have to turn it from a construction site to a stadium and back again on a weekly basis. On the flip side, we got ticket revenue against this extra cost.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Howaythetoon

The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

 

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

 

Because they knew what kind of negative impact it would have on the city center economy.

 

Just wanted to come back to this.

 

Now i'm sure you know more about this than i do; after all - i haven't lived in Newcastle for any more than a month in any single period. But i would be willing to bet that Newcastle United FC is the city's biggest seller.

 

The major bulk of people who come to watch games are local - but i've got a friend just down the road from me who's got a season ticket. And i/they live a good two hours or so from Newcastle. I predict about 10% of the home support is coming from somewhere else in the country. And, when you consider the away support - 2/3000 every game - that's more people coming into the area.

 

More people coming into the area, eating in 'our' restaurants, buying our souvenirs, staying in our hotels, travelling on 'our' Metro. Lots and lots of money coming into the area - and i can't see how that can be bad for the economy. Increase the capacity of Newcastle's stadium by 35,000 (that's how big the extension would have been in 1997), and that's more money into the area.

 

Like i say, you probably know more than it about it than i do, and i'm only looking from it from one (uneducated) point of view.

 

Good post and I didn't quite look at it from that angle, an angle which obviously would bring revenue into the area, but would the money earned that way equal or better the money earned the current way?

 

We can't underestimate other factors that having SJP in the city center benefits the city center either in an ecomomical sense. By being so predominant and so visable, it often makes up peoples minds for them. I've done it myself, went into Toon with no intention of popping in to by a shirt, but the stadium drew me to spending my money anyway.

 

I've went and bought tickets at the Box Office and suddenly got a bit peckish so grabbed a bite to eat around the corner from SJP or got a bit thirsty and popped into a bar for a drink/bite to eat.

 

Many fans also consider the match and shopping in Toon like killing two birds with one stone, by being so central, it's easier to chuck in a bit of shopping ahead of the match than two trips, one for the match on day one, one for shopping on day 2. Marketing shows when people are in that frame of kill two birds with one stone, they spend more.

 

Think of a supermarket ploy of "buy two tins of beans, get an extra free". Now the punter thinks they're getting a bargain but in reality they are being coerced into spending more due to the kill two birds with one stone factor.

 

Now take the presence of SJP away from the city and you could take away those type of factors and by considering those factors you begin to see and realise just how important NUFC is to this city, more so I'd say, than any other city in the UK and indeed abroad.

 

My mate is a manager at one of the well known fast food outlets in Toon. On match day, they doube their normal takings.

 

A mate who used to work in HMV also claims the same. I've worked in the city center on match day and I've seen with my own two eyes the economic benefits that are produced from the club's sheer predominance and visability as a result of being a central figure.

 

Furthermore, the more money the city generates, the more jobs, the more wealth, the more we have to spend on our club in whatever form that may be, tickets, shirts or a pint in Shearer's.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Howaythetoon

BTW I'm not talking specifically about the Castle Leazes plans, I'm talking about an out of town type relocation ala the mackems, boro and other club's and what impact such a move would make on the city itself.

 

I still believe however even a move to Castle Leazes would have a significant negative impact and would alter the usual routines of thousands of fans. It may not be an impact  to the tune of millions, but in economics every penny counts.

 

There are numerous case studies that have shown how moving a business from one end of a street to another for example, changes things signficiantly on all manner of levels.

 

Location, location, location as they say.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Invicta_Toon

I can't believe some of this...Castle Leazes was a brilliant idea. How the hell can moving the stadium 3 pitch lengths into the park possibly affect the city economy? I walk that just to get to my turnstile on the other side of the ground from where I usually walk down

 

I never understand it when people say our stadium looks fantastic when looking at it as a whole. I thinks its terrible not being symmetrical, almost a joke really. All the publicity shots and TV shots all hide this glaring fact

 

I mean symmetry is just natural, its why ugly blokes don't get laid (scientific fact)

 

Whoever was responsible for it not going ahead should be shot.

 

And I seriously don't see how, what 100? residents of Leazes terrace can dictate over 52,000 people in a democratic age. Bastards. We should buy up each flat as the occupier moves/dies, then lets see how the consultation would go...

Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW I'm not talking specifically about the Castle Leazes plans, I'm talking about an out of town type relocation ala the mackems, boro and other club's and what impact such a move would make on the city itself.

 

I still believe however even a move to Castle Leazes would have a significant negative impact and would alter the usual routines of thousands of fans. It may not be an impact  to the tune of millions, but in economics every penny counts.

 

There are numerous case studies that have shown how moving a business from one end of a street to another for example, changes things signficiantly on all manner of levels.

 

Location, location, location as they say.

 

Disagree. At the end of the day, we support the football club, not the economy of the city centre. And it is no good shouting about not matching spending power of Manu, Arsenal (Now), and Liverpool (maybe) when people are backing moves to limit the clubs financial potential for the sake of a 5 minute walk, a last pint in the pub, or a quick sarnie after queueing for a ticket. You would adjust.

 

I find it quite amazing that most of the people who don't have the foresight in this area are probably the same people who expect the club to have a bottomless pit of money, and at the same time, don't realise they are backing the decision (under pressure or not) of the Halls and Shepherd to settle for 2nd best and a stadium of limited capacity, while at the same time criticising them for everything else they do. This area, is in my opinion, their biggest blunder, and their only major one, apart from the appointment of Souness which can however be corrected in time. They should have told the council that they want this land, or they would take the club out of the city completely, and called their bluff.

 

The next 100 years of Newcastle United revolved around this new stadium, our potential on a long term basis would be immeasurably higher if we had moved.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe some of this...Castle Leazes was a brilliant idea. How the hell can moving the stadium 3 pitch lengths into the park possibly affect the city economy? I walk that just to get to my turnstile on the other side of the ground from where I usually walk down

 

I never understand it when people say our stadium looks fantastic when looking at it as a whole. I thinks its terrible not being symmetrical, almost a joke really. All the publicity shots and TV shots all hide this glaring fact

 

I mean symmetry is just natural, its why ugly blokes don't get laid (scientific fact)

 

Whoever was responsible for it not going ahead should be shot.

 

And I seriously don't see how, what 100? residents of Leazes terrace can dictate over 52,000 people in a democratic age. Bastards. We should buy up each flat as the occupier moves/dies, then lets see how the consultation would go...

 

Abso-lootley.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing to do with the residents of Leazes Terrace- it's Grade I listed and protected by law.

 

The Terrace is/was owned by the University, not sure of the current status of ownership.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing to do with the residents of Leazes Terrace- it's Grade I listed and protected by law.

 

The Terrace is/was owned by the University, not sure of the current status of ownership.

 

Yup, pretty sure it still is.

 

Where was Castle Leazes (horrible name btw) to be built?

 

Castle Leazes. :lol:

 

That's the name of the area mate.

 

Hehe... Never heard of, but have only been living here for 2 years.. I assume it is located at the other side of Leazes Park?

 

Yeah, it's where the student flats are beyond Spital Tongues, near the BBC TV Centre.

 

Speaking of funny names, back in the day the BBC monstrosity was known as the 'pink palace'. Don't think it was the official title mind. :lol:

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

half of leazes terrace is owned by the university, and half by private residents who own the flats. but like Matt says it is Grade I listed. to put that into context, Grey Street is only grade II listed, so it would be easier to demolish that than this building.

Link to post
Share on other sites

True, never going to happen.

 

That said, you would think that they would appreciate upping sticks and getting the whole lot moved to somewhere with a nice view like ummm... Fenham. Must live like vampires there under the shadow of the east stand. bluebiggrin.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Always fascinating reading threads like these, maybe moving away was the right option but i guess we'll never know. Anyway lets start improving things on the field before other things ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a former member of the Magpie group , here are a couple of observations about Stadium plans ;

 

1.In 1988 , John Hall wanted a 40,000 seater stadium - he showed us the plans at the first meeting in May

of that year. Several members of the group , including myself , objected on the grounds that it would not be big enough if the takeover was successful , and the club prospered. He said that football crowds were falling , and so-called experts had advised him that 40,000 was enough.

We stuck out for our views , and he said he would look at it again IF things went as we said.

As you all know , the club DID prosper under SJH & KK , and I'll never forget SJH's face when we played

Grimsby in the promotion season and he came in & said 'there are 7000 people queueing to get in....!!'

This was AFTER kick-off.....

Needless to say , the 'I told you so' phrase was quickly churned out..!

 

After the club's successful first few seasons in the Premiership , SJH realised that the club had to capitalise on its huge fan-base by developing the stadium, but restrictions in the development affecting Leazes Terrace meant that there was a limit as to what could be done.

Sir John then arranged the feasibility study for Castle Leazes(a fantastic project with sliding roof that would have given us the biggest stadium in the Premiership).The project also allowed for landscaping pf the existing park , used then mainly as a dog walking area(!).

As soon as the project went up to planning by Council , it hit difficulties - a Protest Group , led by one Dolly Potter(perhaps Dotty Poller is a better name..!)who organised a petition against the plan. This was even , reputedly , taken to Wearside to allow Mackems to sign in objection ; I don't know if this was correct , but there were certainly S/land fans on Tyneside who signed.

Eventually , the 'Brains dept' better known as John Prescott , overruled the plan, though I suspect the Council had some bearing on it. SJH was prepared to move the Stadium to Gateshead , get all the Planning Grants available there(thus reducing the cost to the club), and - this is crucial - Bus wives etc to the MetroCentre whilst men at the game.....

As Newcastle City Council had an interest in Eldon Square at that time , this was not good news for them

but fans in general opposed the idea(at least , a vocal number did). I wasn't 100% on the idea of moving , but then , Manure are based in Trafford Park......

 

Unfortunately , SJH had to step back from day to day club affairs , & Freddie Fletcher was put in charge of this.He regularly had Council members as guests on Match days , but what effect this had one must judge for oneself...

 

Either way , the project was dropped , and at the present time , I suggest that the Club has more important priorities - like how to sort-out the team....

Nevertheless , a great opportunity lost , and you can only speculate where NUFC would have been if the club had won the Premiership in 1996 , and then built that fantasic stadium.

History would have been a great deal different , but as Brian Clough used to say 'If your Aunt had B---s, she'd be your Uncle...!'

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a former member of the Magpie group , here are a couple of observations about Stadium plans ;

 

1.In 1988 , John Hall wanted a 40,000 seater stadium - he showed us the plans at the first meeting in May

of that year. Several members of the group , including myself , objected on the grounds that it would not be big enough if the takeover was successful , and the club prospered. He said that football crowds were falling , and so-called experts had advised him that 40,000 was enough.

We stuck out for our views , and he said he would look at it again IF things went as we said.

As you all know , the club DID prosper under SJH & KK , and I'll never forget SJH's face when we played

Grimsby in the promotion season and he came in & said 'there are 7000 people queueing to get in....!!'

This was AFTER kick-off.....

Needless to say , the 'I told you so' phrase was quickly churned out..!

 

After the club's successful first few seasons in the Premiership , SJH realised that the club had to capitalise on its huge fan-base by developing the stadium, but restrictions in the development affecting Leazes Terrace meant that there was a limit as to what could be done.

Sir John then arranged the feasibility study for Castle Leazes(a fantastic project with sliding roof that would have given us the biggest stadium in the Premiership).The project also allowed for landscaping pf the existing park , used then mainly as a dog walking area(!).

As soon as the project went up to planning by Council , it hit difficulties - a Protest Group , led by one Dolly Potter(perhaps Dotty Poller is a better name..!)who organised a petition against the plan. This was even , reputedly , taken to Wearside to allow Mackems to sign in objection ; I don't know if this was correct , but there were certainly S/land fans on Tyneside who signed.

Eventually , the 'Brains dept' better known as John Prescott , overruled the plan, though I suspect the Council had some bearing on it. SJH was prepared to move the Stadium to Gateshead , get all the Planning Grants available there(thus reducing the cost to the club), and - this is crucial - Bus wives etc to the MetroCentre whilst men at the game.....

As Newcastle City Council had an interest in Eldon Square at that time , this was not good news for them

but fans in general opposed the idea(at least , a vocal number did). I wasn't 100% on the idea of moving , but then , Manure are based in Trafford Park......

 

Unfortunately , SJH had to step back from day to day club affairs , & Freddie Fletcher was put in charge of this.He regularly had Council members as guests on Match days , but what effect this had one must judge for oneself...

 

Either way , the project was dropped , and at the present time , I suggest that the Club has more important priorities - like how to sort-out the team....

Nevertheless , a great opportunity lost , and you can only speculate where NUFC would have been if the club had won the Premiership in 1996 , and then built that fantasic stadium.

History would have been a great deal different , but as Brian Clough used to say 'If your Aunt had B---s, she'd be your Uncle...!'

 

Agreed mate. This is the biggest blow to Newcastle's future - ever. Bollocks to "tradition", you make it.

 

Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

 

Am I the only person in the country who thinks the interior of the Millenium Stadium is shite?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Morph

Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

 

Am I the only person in the country who thinks the interior of the Millenium Stadium is shite?

 

me too.  i dislike its cheap look.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...