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SJP development plans that never happened/future development debate


Guest Howaythetoon

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The move to Castle Leazes at the time would have been the right thing - and it was absolutely stupid that the council and owners wouldn't allow it. St James' at the time, albeit a smashing little stadium, was far too small back then - and i can remember cinemas opening to show live games to the public when they couldn't get tickets.

 

But now, looking back and now we've got a 52,000+ stadium, i'm really glad we didn't move - regardless of how amazing the Castle Leazes project looked. I'm a traditionalist - and love St James' Park.

 

Because they knew what kind of negative impact it would have on the city center economy.

 

that isn't the reason why the idea was rejected. an extra 30,00 seats at the football every week would have done wonders for the local economy.

 

it was the dog walkers and conservationists that kicked up all the fuss.

 

bloody annoying when a minority can stop a project that the majority of people in newcastle would support

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Guest Morph

Don't see why people are getting a hard-on about a massive stadium.  We wouldn't even fill it ffs.

 

i beg to differ.

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I have to agree with Sima at the moment, albeit in a less arsey way.

 

We're struggling to sell season tickets as it is. It's going to take some resurgence in order to realistically create grounds for further expansion, I'm talking Champions League football here at the very least, or even a trophy. Right now further expansion is a pipe-dream, a lovely pipe-dream at that.

 

The photos of a massive SJP excite me as well, unfortunately the team is going to need to dramatically improve in order for this to become a realistic prospect. Like NE5 has been saying, we need to wait for the next "wave" to come along and jump on it without a second thought this time. Too many times progress has passed us by, be it in the eras he mentioned, or more recently when Bobby Robson/whoever felt bringing in Lee Bowyer would be enough squad improvement for a Summer.

 

Next time an opportunity to cement our standing in the upper echelon of football comes along, we cannot afford to miss it.

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Don't see why people are getting a hard-on about a massive stadium.  We wouldn't even fill it ffs.

 

i beg to differ.

 

i reckon a successful nufc playing in europe every season could fill a stadium of over 60k.

 

extending the gallowgate end would take us to about that capacity. no need to push beyond that in the short term considering the expense involved in addressing the leazes terrace issue.

 

 

 

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Realistically, I think any further development of the ground will be at least in part paid for by renaming rights on the stadium, so perhaps the price we might have to pay for not moving from St James would be to lose the name

 

good idea.

 

i could live with that. and while we may gain a corporate name, the fans would call always call it st james.

 

it's like the emirates stadium. every gooner i know is calling it ashburton grove

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Guest Howaythetoon

I think even at current, we could fill an extra 10,000 seats for League games if pricing and demographic targeting was spot on.

 

Keegan's side could have drawn an extra 30-40,000 IMO.

 

Lets not forget when football was far more cheaper and accessible, we used to pull in 60K plus crowds. I've read reports of 80,000 plus for derby games. The fanbase is there, it's the finances and motivation that would need worked on. A family man may not be able to take his kids to the match at 20 quid a pop, at 5 quid a pop however...

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Guest Howaythetoon

Disagree. At the end of the day, we support the football club, not the economy of the city centre. And it is no good shouting about not matching spending power of Manu, Arsenal (Now), and Liverpool (maybe) when people are backing moves to limit the clubs financial potential for the sake of a 5 minute walk, a last pint in the pub, or a quick sarnie after queueing for a ticket. You would adjust.

 

I find it quite amazing that most of the people who don't have the foresight in this area are probably the same people who expect the club to have a bottomless pit of money, and at the same time, don't realise they are backing the decision (under pressure or not) of the Halls and Shepherd to settle for 2nd best and a stadium of limited capacity, while at the same time criticising them for everything else they do. This area, is in my opinion, their biggest blunder, and their only major one, apart from the appointment of Souness which can however be corrected in time. They should have told the council that they want this land, or they would take the club out of the city completely, and called their bluff.

 

The next 100 years of Newcastle United revolved around this new stadium, our potential on a long term basis would be immeasurably higher if we had moved.

 

 

 

I believe supporting the club is also supporting the economy and value my city just the same as my club, and many feel the same. Although I understand your point.

 

BTW I wasn't so much talking about the Castle Leazes plans in particuluar, I'm taking a wider view of a full-on relocation ala the mackems, Boro, Man City and soon to be Liverpool at el. Such a move would have a big impact on the city center, in a negative way IMO.

 

As for competing, well you don't need the biggest of stadium's to be the best, as Arsenal have proved. A good manager and a good board is of far more importance. Lets try to keep our opinions of the management away from this thread eh? ;)

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At moment i too dont believe we could fill a massive stadium that has been mooted on here. could we fill 60k for every league game at present? I dont think so. As is said, we are struggling to sell season tickets and the 'waiting list' is now none existant.

 

The last thing we want is a 60k stadium with patches of empty seats everywhere. Like them jokers down the road.

 

I too wish we had moved but it wasnt to be, but you have to understand that failing the move something had to be done about SJP, it simply was not big enough.

 

I think SJP looks fantastic personally. its different something other than these modern lego set stadiums that are popping up everywhere.

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think we'd almost fill 60k even this upcoming season if the extra seats were filled with sensibly priced tickets. out of all premiership clubs we have the highest percentage of seats filled per match (other than man utd whose stats are a bit odd cos of the expansion near the end of the season), so we're probably the team most able to expand. our percentage of filled seats is 99.6% across the entire season, arsenal's is only 99.1% and they're expecting to increase the amount of fans at games by 20,000 + each game next season! liverpool and everton are two other clubs looking for stadium moves to massively increase capacity and they only fill 97.5% and 91.5% of seats respectively.

 

my guess is if we had expanded to 61,000 for this season we'd probably get around 58,000 for most games, pushing up to capacity for any league games vs man utd, sunderland (if we played them) etc. give us a bit of success, or get us into the champion's league on a regular basis, and we'd probably fill more than 61,000.

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Guest Howaythetoon

think we'd almost fill 60k even this upcoming season if the extra seats were filled with sensibly priced tickets. out of all premiership clubs we have the highest percentage of seats filled per match (other than man utd whose stats are a bit odd cos of the expansion near the end of the season), so we're probably the team most able to expand. our percentage of filled seats is 99.6% across the entire season, arsenal's is only 99.1% and they're expecting to increase the amount of fans at games by 20,000 + each game next season! liverpool and everton are two other clubs looking for stadium moves to massively increase capacity and they only fill 97.5% and 91.5% of seats respectively.

 

my guess is if we had expanded to 61,000 for this season we'd probably get around 58,000 for most games, pushing up to capacity for any league games vs man utd, sunderland (if we played them) etc. give us a bit of success, or get us into the champion's league on a regular basis, and we'd probably fill more than 61,000.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

The waiting list may well be gone but there are still thousands of people who, if they could afford it and circumstances were favourable to their own, would love to go to the match, whole streets and areas that over the years have been priced out of going. Metro Radio used to pull in 150K listeners from the North East for their Toon coverage, you can't tell me that the club couldn't attract at least 20,000 of those with demographic targeting and smart pricing...

 

For some Cup games, at least 30% of those attending are non season ticket holders, at least 5% are first time attendees.

 

Like already stated, the fan base is there, it's being able to afford to go and being able to take time out to go that is the issue for many thousands.

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think we'd almost fill 60k even this upcoming season if the extra seats were filled with sensibly priced tickets. out of all premiership clubs we have the highest percentage of seats filled per match (other than man utd whose stats are a bit odd cos of the expansion near the end of the season), so we're probably the team most able to expand. our percentage of filled seats is 99.6% across the entire season, arsenal's is only 99.1% and they're expecting to increase the amount of fans at games by 20,000 + each game next season! liverpool and everton are two other clubs looking for stadium moves to massively increase capacity and they only fill 97.5% and 91.5% of seats respectively.

 

my guess is if we had expanded to 61,000 for this season we'd probably get around 58,000 for most games, pushing up to capacity for any league games vs man utd, sunderland (if we played them) etc. give us a bit of success, or get us into the champion's league on a regular basis, and we'd probably fill more than 61,000.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

The waiting list may well be gone but there are still thousands of people who, if they could afford it and circumstances were favourable to their own, would love to go to the match, whole streets and areas that over the years have been priced out of going. Metro Radio used to pull in 150K listeners from the North East for their Toon coverage, you can't tell me that the club couldn't attract at least 20,000 of those with demographic targeting and smart pricing...

 

For some Cup games, at least 30% of those attending are non season ticket holders, at least 5% are first time attendees.

 

Like already stated, the fan base is there, it's being able to afford to go and being able to take time out to go that is the issue for many thousands.

 

true, part of the trouble is motivating fans to spend the money on a season ticket, if we don't have enough success or if tickets are judged to be too expensive then people will stay away. the fact is the overwhelming majority of toon fans in the north-east don't attend matches on a regular basis.  give us the same sort of success as liverpool and we'd have a huge upturn in crowds imo.

 

there's also, like you say, huge swathes of tyneside priced out of going and somewhat disenfranchised from the whole experience of being a newcastle fan- large parts of the west end for instance. the poor parts of blaydon suffer similarly, at school it was the upper-working, lower-middle types who are the biggest newcastle fans, the kids who were the worst off were more apathetic and i got the feeling they felt a bit excluded from the whole process. not sure how to remedy this though without making some provision for cheap seats and i doubt we can afford to do that.

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Guest Howaythetoon

think we'd almost fill 60k even this upcoming season if the extra seats were filled with sensibly priced tickets. out of all premiership clubs we have the highest percentage of seats filled per match (other than man utd whose stats are a bit odd cos of the expansion near the end of the season), so we're probably the team most able to expand. our percentage of filled seats is 99.6% across the entire season, arsenal's is only 99.1% and they're expecting to increase the amount of fans at games by 20,000 + each game next season! liverpool and everton are two other clubs looking for stadium moves to massively increase capacity and they only fill 97.5% and 91.5% of seats respectively.

 

my guess is if we had expanded to 61,000 for this season we'd probably get around 58,000 for most games, pushing up to capacity for any league games vs man utd, sunderland (if we played them) etc. give us a bit of success, or get us into the champion's league on a regular basis, and we'd probably fill more than 61,000.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

The waiting list may well be gone but there are still thousands of people who, if they could afford it and circumstances were favourable to their own, would love to go to the match, whole streets and areas that over the years have been priced out of going. Metro Radio used to pull in 150K listeners from the North East for their Toon coverage, you can't tell me that the club couldn't attract at least 20,000 of those with demographic targeting and smart pricing...

 

For some Cup games, at least 30% of those attending are non season ticket holders, at least 5% are first time attendees.

 

Like already stated, the fan base is there, it's being able to afford to go and being able to take time out to go that is the issue for many thousands.

 

true, part of the trouble is motivating fans to spend the money on a season ticket, if we don't have enough success or if tickets are judged to be too expensive then people will stay away. the fact is the overwhelming majority of toon fans in the north-east don't attend matches on a regular basis. give us the same sort of success as liverpool and we'd have a huge upturn in crowds imo.

 

Again, agree fully. What stops many 5-6 games a season fans is finances, work or other commitments and even location as a good few live outside the city walls if you like and live in areas like Blyth, Durham etc.

 

If we were perennial trophy winners, you couldn't put a cap on the number of seats we could sell.

 

I'm sure intelligent ticket policies and pricing would entice fans, like for example 'part-time' season tickets for those who can't always attend a match and if they can't make the match, they inform the club and the club puts the seat on general sale. Just an example...

 

Some fans share tickets, I'm a member of a ST share scheme with a few mates myself. I'm sure that can be (it probably already is) replicated many a time over.

 

If the club introduced singing ends too and charge an extra fiver or something for that (I'd pay) they could then knock off a fiver on cheaper tickets to appeal to those on low income or those who previously couldn't afford it.

 

The club could sell packaged seats/blocks to schools at cheap rates given schools a chance to take classes to the match, aternating matches for different classes. They could target run down areas and work with the local council or youth project centers. The government will grant these organisation grants for such schemes. When I was a bairn a youth club I was a member of done a deal with Flamingo Land and we'd all go there once or twice a year as part of a group, they got grants for that.

 

There are endless options we could exercise or look into.

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Guest Howaythetoon

there's also, like you say, huge swathes of tyneside priced out of going and somewhat disenfranchised from the whole experience of being a newcastle fan- large parts of the west end for instance. the poor parts of blaydon suffer similarly, at school it was the upper-working, lower-middle types who are the biggest newcastle fans, the kids who were the worst off were more apathetic and i got the feeling they felt a bit excluded from the whole process. not sure how to remedy this though without making some provision for cheap seats and i doubt we can afford to do that.

 

Aye that is a problem. The whole idea of increasing capacity is to increase revenue so smart pricing seats will have to be compensated for in other areas.  Maybe the board could offset that by given up their dividend... ;)

 

I agree with you on areas like the West End (my own area) slowly but surely losing an affinity with the club, a bond if you like due to years of being priced out and isolated. I see it every day, you can feel it. That could see to it that a whole generation becomes lost to the club and a club likes our can't afford to cut off parts of the community it may well one day need to stay in business as quite a large portion of today's fans are tourist fans, who will buy a ST for 2-3 seasons and then move on for whatever reason.

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Leazes Terrace on the other hand is a major issue. Not an insummountable one, but an expensive one for sure. We can't just do away with it and a L7-size East Stand would run right down the middle of the existing block. The best the club could hope to do is free up enough land to move the entire building brick by brick, preserving the aspects protected by the listing (and you just have to hope that doesn't include the foundations or internal layouts!) Facades have been protected with entirely new buildings built behind it (such as the edge of Monument Mall IIRC?)."

 

If we had an Abramovitch he pay to move Leazes Terrace somewhere (Shielfield?) were it would be better seen and  then offer teh Uni space in teh "wall" of the stand for accomodation/offices  - no big deal if you have teh ££££££

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MGM Mirage

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-19-2003/0002061486&EDATE=

LAS VEGAS, Nov. 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- MGM MIRAGE (NYSE: MGG), the most respected U.S. based hotel and gaming company, and Newcastle United PLC today announced a 50:50 joint venture agreement to build a major new mixed-use development on a prime site above St. James' Metro Station, which is in the heart of Newcastle's city centre and adjacent to Newcastle United's football stadium.

 

 

Super-Casino

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/press.nsf/latestbyid/48E363822A2B94188025717800428A9F?opendocument

Newcastle’s bid for a super casino and regional conference centre took a major step forward today.

The Casino Advisory Panel confirmed that Newcastle City Council’s submission will go through to the next round which will decide where the UK’s first super casino will be built. The city is now one of eight left in the running for a super casino and the only remaining city in the North East.

 

 

The Department for Media, Culture and Sport will not decide on a location for a super-casino until 2007

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Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

Am I the only person in the country who thinks the interior of the Millenium Stadium is shite?

 

Do you ?

 

I think the atmosphere, and the closeness to the pitch is superb. 

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I wasn't mate, your comment in your previous post about the Keegan era is what I had in mind. One day we will have a good manager again like Keegan was, and we need to capitalise on it more and make it count permanently.

 

I want to match and catch ManU on a long term basis. We won't do that with this stadium, and the prohibitive cost of expanding it makes the task more difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

chase the dream, not the opposition

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I wasn't mate, your comment in your previous post about the Keegan era is what I had in mind. One day we will have a good manager again like Keegan was, and we need to capitalise on it more and make it count permanently.

 

I want to match and catch ManU on a long term basis. We won't do that with this stadium, and the prohibitive cost of expanding it makes the task more difficult.

 

 

chase the dream, not the opposition

 

 

We saw during the Keegan years, what a lot of us have always known, that it is possible.

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Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

Am I the only person in the country who thinks the interior of the Millenium Stadium is shite?

 

Do you ?

 

I think the atmosphere, and the closeness to the pitch is superb. 

 

May be partially shaped by the fact I was sitting almost as high in the stadium as you can get. Amongst other things, the gradient was ludicrous. Might be alright for Italian-style stand-still-holding-a-flare support, but as it was, I was almost pleased I didn't have to celebrate a goal. My foot covered almost my whole area front to back, and was level with the scalp of whoever was sitting in front of me. If I'd jumped up REALLY enthusiastically and fallen forwards, I would've covered at least four or five rows.

 

Aside from that, I just felt the place was quite souless and built within budget. It didn't add more than it should've to the support or the spectacle, if you know what I mean.

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Can anyone on here who was at the Cup Semi Final not say they wish we played in a stadium like that ?

 

 

Am I the only person in the country who thinks the interior of the Millenium Stadium is shite?

 

Do you ?

 

I think the atmosphere, and the closeness to the pitch is superb. 

 

May be partially shaped by the fact I was sitting almost as high in the stadium as you can get. Amongst other things, the gradient was ludicrous. Might be alright for Italian-style stand-still-holding-a-flare support, but as it was, I was almost pleased I didn't have to celebrate a goal. My foot covered almost my whole area front to back, and was level with the scalp of whoever was sitting in front of me. If I'd jumped up REALLY enthusiastically and fallen forwards, I would've covered at least four or five rows.

 

Aside from that, I just felt the place was quite souless and built within budget. It didn't add more than it should've to the support or the spectacle, if you know what I mean.

 

I think I know what you mean, I was low down, which isn't ideal for the view either, but I liked it all the same. I have been in the top tier of Old Trafford and wasn't too happy up there, it Cardiff is similar. It actually bounces .....

 

 

 

 

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Guest Invicta_Toon

we get the 99.9% or whatever figure because whenever any ST holder can't go, their ticket is almost always taken by another fan. This has got to show there could be much bigger crowds. If not ST's, then flexible pricing of games according to opposition. Not giving it all over to ST's would also allow sensible management of empty sections should there be any (keep out of sight of the cameras / cover with banners / anlarge away section buffer zone)

 

Don't agree with the other clubs systems of how they try to always fill a ground - you have to pay for a shite game to see a good game

 

On the renaming issue, I wouldn't mind going to 'The Rock' to see the game

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we get the 99.9% or whatever figure because whenever any ST holder can't go, their ticket is almost always taken by another fan. This has got to show there could be much bigger crowds. If not ST's, then flexible pricing of games according to opposition. Not giving it all over to ST's would also allow sensible management of empty sections should there be any (keep out of sight of the cameras / cover with banners / anlarge away section buffer zone)

 

Don't agree with the other clubs systems of how they try to always fill a ground - you have to pay for a shite game to see a good game

 

On the renaming issue, I wouldn't mind going to 'The Rock' to see the game

 

So - for the benefit of everyone, I'll spell this out. If we had moved to a new stadium at Castle Leazes for instance, and were playing there now, along with the cost having been cheaper than developing sJP, we would be filling a bigger stadium, despite "massive underachievement and having a shite board with a shite chairman".

 

 

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