Milanista

On 19/07/2023 at 04:29, jigen said:

I am Italian and follow him every week. 

Tonali played for Milan 3 years. 

The first season: very bad. Second: great. Third: average. 

He is a good player. But not a top talent. He is not in the league of Bruno and Isak. For me you have overpaid: the fair price is 40-45m euro. 

On 19/07/2023 at 07:50, loki679 said:

 

@Milanista is gonna kick your face off.

His opinion is the most common about Tonali, by far. This is true even before he was sold, I have to be honest. Even amongst those who were the most offended at the sale, many concede that they think he's an expendable player that you overpaid for.

I do not share this opinion, I think he can be world-class. My opinion is a minority opinion.

Also: reports in Italy are particularly firm about the idea that you paid 70m Euros (at minimum) with bonuses to get to 80m, some tout higher numbers, but the consensus is 70m plus easy bonuses to get to 80m. This is true even among the most virulent Inter fan journalists.

It seems I have become a punchline here, so I'm not sure if I'll be as active as before, I don't want to be rude in my responses as I am a guest here. I don't take kindly to jabs at Milan, and some of the responses I've read seem mean-spirited... so many of you have been so genuinely warm and nice to me, I'd rather not spoil that by lashing out. I'm Italian and emotional and I'd rather be cordial.

3 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

 

How do you know he isn't happy to take this opportunity?  

 

If he's as driven professionally as he is he is on the pitch, hell want to win it all. He might well feel, having already won Serie A, that there's not much more he can do at 4th favourites for the title Milan.

 

It represents a good opportunity, potential to win something even or, probably what he's thinking, stepping stone onto the world's true elite by playing in the best league.

 

It's a hard pill to swallow, but for ambitious footballers, there's more to their career aspirations than playing for the club they support, we know all about that. 

 

 

 

 

I'm a guest here, I think you're underrating Milan and our prospects for silverware too much. Enjoy Tonali, he's a wonderful player.

Vitiello just confirmed that this deal is advanced, and that Milan want more than 70m. He also says that the salary offer is "more than double" what he currently gets at Milan.

Di Marzio confirmed it, it looks like it's done.

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

Really hope he's joining for the right reasons and isn't being pushed into it. If it's true. I's a good move if he has the drive and professionalism to reach the top.

 

It's not if Milan are pushing him into it for financial reasons or he just can't turn down the money. Not that this has been suggested, I'm just scarred by the likes of Luque and Thauvain. 

 

Encouraged by reports about his willingness to join however

 

 

He doesn't want to leave Milan, that much is abundantly clear throughout the reporting.

The kid plays with venom, even when he was with Brescia, he always had that extra... bit of being a bastard, in a good way. He's not a dirty player, not at all--but he just... fights. Even if he has a bad game, he's going to cover every blade of grass.

But have no illusions that he's leaving Milan because he wants to. It seems (and is being reported now in Italian sources) that it is our CEO Furlani and our owner Cardinale that are pushing him out.

Schira (tier 2-3) has said Newcastle are confident they can close, 70-75m and 7m salary, that's net, so 14m gross.

2 hours ago, TheInfiniteOdyssey said:

Who do you think Milan would target to replace Tonali out of interest? 

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1 minute ago, Unbelievable said:

I was under the impression from your contributions at the time both clubs were chasing Botman that your owners had already assembled a very good squad on pennies using data analysis and properly good scouting (i.e. moneyball). Selling at the right time for the right fee and being able to reinvest and grow is part of that. I’m sure you’ll be alright even if it sucks massively losing one of your own, which is something all Newcastle fans who were around when Ashley flogged Carroll on deadline day (without replacing him no less).

We never sold anyone during that time, that's why we all found it fun.

One of the significant parts of Di Marzio's report is that Pioli, our manager, was not consulted yet. In Italy, the manager seldom gets a say in the transfer market, and Pioli, after Maldini got fired, was publicly given more trust and say in the transfer market.

That's just some context, and perhaps hints at Di Marzio's source?

5 minutes ago, fluctuator said:

Don't understand what they are actually saying but my god their reaction 

 

 

To be fair, this is the Italian reaction to most things.

This is what Di Marzio reported:

"At the moment there isn’t any agreement for the sale of Tonali. Milan met the player’s agents today to discuss how to adjust in case the serious interest from Newcastle and Chelsea in the player turn into concrete offers. It was decided that Milan would listen to the offers and only then the different options would be proposed to the player. Pioli has not been informed about a possible departure of Tonali. Tonali asked his entourage to be left calm at this time since he is busy with Euro U-21."

2 minutes ago, geordiesteve710 said:

 

Without wanting to read the 26 pages that are new in this thread since this morning, I sincerely hope that posters haven't been too mean and you stick around on here.

 

I really enjoyed your detailed posts this morning about this player, his tactical acumen, where he would fit etc. If this transfer does happen- and it's still a big "if" then I hope it works out well for all parties and that your owners reinvest the money smartly to improve the squad. 

 

Also next time we're linked with a Milan player I want to read you writing "after we passed on Botman and then discarded our cast-off Tonali to you..." ?

 

 

I'm trying not to lash out, it's interesting to see the reactions here, though.

I'll try to be as honest as possible: I've never wanted Botman. Tonali is not someone I ever wanted to leave, he's a great player. Comparisons to Aquilani are lazy, he's nothing like him. There are significant factions of Milan fans who actually think anything above 70m is a steal--many of them have been talking about him being overrated (before this transfer) and are celebrating this sale, I am not one of them.

I worry about our owners. They really think they have broken the code on transfers through data, and it seems they're going to use us as their grand reveal of their supposed genius. I am skeptical.

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3 hours ago, LV said:

I wasn’t even aware there was an intersection between fashion and law

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It looks like you're going to get Tonali. I'm quite shocked, not because we sold a player, but because we need Italians, in particular.

He is an incredible player. He can be a DM, he can be a box-to-box in the true marauding English style. Maybe not Gerrard exactly, but think young Roy Keane.

Our new ownership really does think they are smarter than everyone, and it seems that firing Maldini was truly a sign that they think they are smarter than everyone and are apparently going to go full-force into Moneyball.

We haven't sold a player under our previous owners, who are bankrolling our current owners--it seems that our new ownership structure is clearing out everyone who doesn't fit with their project.

I realize I'm going to get stick on here, and that's fine, I've tried to be gracious--but it seems our new ownership has very different plans to Maldini. I'm truly in shock.

Oh, and just as a note, salaries in Italy are reported in net, not gross.

You've just got a hell of a player, our fanbase is quite shocked.

5 minutes ago, Menace said:

The chap has an over inflated ego anything Milan related. Was convincing us that if Maldini wanted Botman he would've gone there also. No disrespect to you but AC Milan isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. The serie a is a dead league.

Having confidence in my team is over-inflated ego?

I never wanted Botman, so I was happy we didn't get him. He's a great player for your system, I don't think he would have worked as well for ours.

Milan is on the rise, I mean... if you think I was this confident in 2018... lol, I wasn't. But... there's a difference between being an optimistic person and having a reason to be optimistic. Currently, I think our team is building back to where we were, with proper management.

I mean, we don't even own our own stadium. The amount of space we have to grow commercially... is huge. So, I'd like to keep my interactions here as cordial as possible, and I'd like to refrain from name-calling, please.

3 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Since Inter won it in 2010, Italian teams in the last 4.

 

Juventus - 3 times

Inter - 1 time

Milan - 1 time

Roma - 1 time

 

Of the last 52 Champions League Semi-Finals, 6 have been Italian teams. Sorry if I'm under-estimating still. 

 

 

 

 

And this year there was an Italian team in every European final possible. Two Italian teams in the semi-finals of both the CL and EL. These things go in cycles.

I also don't even care about Serie A teams, lol. Milan have won more CL titles than Inter and Juve combined, so, it's not like their relative performance means much to me.

Milan has been absent for most of that time period, and it's incredible how fast it took us to get back to the CL after finally having some competent management for the first time in a decade.

Just now, r0cafella said:

We do, the only player we’ve tested the water with in this manner is Maddison but even then, our offers were both fair and made sense (player contract expiring and his club struggling). 
 

The reported approaches for both Tonali and Barella don’t make much sense so I expect the leaks are incomplete and driven by certain agendas. 

Just now, Pietro Mazzara from MilanNews (a good source, but Mazzara is not our top guy, that is Vitiello he's as close to official as you can get, although Longo and Moretto are moving up in the world) he is reporting on a "monster offer" from Newcastle to Tonali. He says that Newcastle is offering to double his salary and that Milan will only open negotiations if the player is interested--i.e. they don't want or need to sell.

He also reports that if Tonali is interested, Milan will need more than 60m to even consider. If Tonali wants to stay, Milan will not entertain offers.

Before you get too excited, this sounds very... soap opera-y (as is typical) and designed to show how magnanimous the owners are and how Tonali is turning down Newcastle to stay at Milan.

Maybe I'm wrong? Midfield is an area we need to improve upon due to Bennacer's knee surgery, and we also have a problem with homegrown rules, so... I find the idea of a sale of Tonali to be unlikely.

Just now, Optimistic Nut said:

 

I think Leao is going to have a long wait to win the CL. He might (and should) win multiple Serie As. I'd be very surprised if you get to the last 4 of the CL in the next 5 years, though. 

Lol, okay. I think you underestimate Milan, but that's pretty typical of EPL fans.

3 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

@Milanistahas this offer been reported at all by any of your tier1? Horncastle certainly isn’t a tier1 source for us. 
 

I wonder if this will be like the Barella situation whereby we’ve asked about the player and the situation is hyped up and amplified by the media. 
 

Since our takeover we are a much tighter ship and generally don’t make offers for players who haven’t given us some form of go ahead. 

Not yet, no. But Horncastle is a very serious journalist. I respect his work.

Barella situation I'm unfamiliar with, but everyone knows that Inter need to sell and they need to sell high. Inter paid like 45m for Barella, so the idea they'd sell a top-class midfielder for 50m is laughable, even in their position.

I don't doubt that Newcastle bid, it's entirely possible. The offer is... very low. But if you do run a tight ship, then... my theory is that our owners are leaking it, so that they can seem magnanimous about turning down an "evil EPL offer" as they try to justify firing Maldini because our owner has an ego problem and now wants to prove Maldini wrong about ambitions and winning.

6 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

He may have done nothing in that game but he's done lots of things in many others, I don't think you can judge a performance against one side and translate it 1-to-1 to another.

 

Obviously you could have won like, but Man City were dominant in the second half of the season. The treble seemed inevitable.

Okay, you think it was inevitable, but are you going to pretend like Pep hasn't crashed-and-burned with City, with great teams, constantly?

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

I'm not upset at all.

 

I just don't see Milan getting to a CL Final any time soon, so he's already achieved the maximum he can at Milan. I don't think that's such a hot take.

 

At Newcastle he'd have a chance to experience a new league and new challenges. He gets the chance to make history and be a club legend, rather than a footnote at Milan. 

It really is a hot-take though.

He has not achieved the maximum at Milan. Our goals are to win multiple league titles, and multiple Champions League titles. We just extended Rafa Leao, who stated that he's at Milan to win... the CL.

I honestly think many of you overrate the appeal of the EPL, first of all. He's a boyhood Milan fan, this is his dream, and he already has made history at Milan, and he's a kid... he has many years to do more at Milan.

Even though he's not from our academy, he's treated like one of the players who is from our academy, players like Baresi, Albertini, Maldini, Costacurta, etc.

I don't want to be rude to Newcastle, but none of us are looking at our semi-final run as... a success. Most look at it as a failure. Sure, it's a nice stepping stone. But the team wants to win the CL, not be like Tottenham.

If you told me you saw Milan winning Serie A before we won it, and that you thought we could get to the semi-final, then sure, maybe I'd take your "I don't see Milan getting to the final" line more seriously. But we are building in a way that doesn't grab attention. No one cared about Maignan before we bought him, or Leao, or Theo, or even Tomori.

Milan is being built differently, smartly. But our goals are the same. To win.

Tonali is like Shearer, he's from this area, he loves this team, and while he didn't come to Milan at the same point of his career as Shearer did when going to Newcastle, but there's no way Shearer was going to leave Newcastle... so why would Tonali leave?

14 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I mean I'm not saying you couldn't have beat them like, just without evidance to the contrary it's statistically unlikely.

 

Theu have some massive freak up front who just bangs goals in for a laugh.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Menace said:

 

I forgot how delusional you are my friend, welcome back ?

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14 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Man City had just come off the back of one of the best CL knockout performances ever like. They also have the ability to step up a gear when they go behind as we see time and time again.

 

I don't think there's a team on the planet you could say for sure beats them in that final, Inter played great.

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