If possible I would sell Michael Owen in Jan...

[Guest justin99.]

I bet he'll score a couple of goals in his next match and everyone will want to marry him again.

[Dave]

I bet he'll score a couple of goals in his next match and everyone will want to marry him again.

 

Euro 2008?

[James]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

 

Hasn't it occured to you that if Martins had played instead of Owen he might just of scored himself? Or got a hat-trick? Or set up numerous goals? Or been sent off?

[KaKa]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

 

Hasn't it occured to you that if Martins had played instead of Owen he might just of scored himself? Or got a hat-trick? Or set up numerous goals? Or been sent off?

 

Glad someone pointed this out ...

 

James get a grip dude.

[Cajun]

But what about the goals Martins has scored or set up? I can't say if he didn't play against Bolton we would have lost because maybe Owen would have scored a goal or two himself. You can't predict what would have happened and use it as fact, especially when it comes to Martins as he is the sort of player who will score a goal from nothing when we have had barely any of the ball in attacking areas. His wonderful strike against Spurs last season when they were all over us shows what he can do when it doesn't look like we are going to get anything.

[johnnypd]

maybe when the sunderland back-four were defending on the half way line for most the match Martins would've been more effective than Owen and Viduka who had hardly impact at all, with no ability to get in behind and exploit the space with pace. just speculation like...

[James]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

 

Hasn't it occured to you that if Martins had played instead of Owen he might just of scored himself? Or got a hat-trick? Or set up numerous goals? Or been sent off?

 

You dont know with Martins, anything could have happenned.

 

But you can be sure that if you get everyone else playing well, and consistently get the ball into the box, we'd score more goals over the course of a season with a fit Owen than a fit Martins, as for 89 minutes, Owen's attacking play is better than Martins.

[Cajun]

Thing is you wont get a fit Owen for a season. if I had to bet everything I owned in the summer on who would score more goals this season my money would have been on Martins, purely for the fact he is likely to play more games due to Owen being a crock.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

 

Hasn't it occured to you that if Martins had played instead of Owen he might just of scored himself? Or got a hat-trick? Or set up numerous goals? Or been sent off?

 

You dont know with Martins, anything could have happenned.

 

But you can be sure that if you get everyone else playing well, and consistently get the ball into the box, we'd score more goals over the course of a season with a fit Owen than a fit Martins, as for 89 minutes, Owen's attacking play is better than Martins.

 

That's exactly my point.

 

And you can be sure if the opposing team turns up and decides to put the tea lady in goal you're gonna win. 'cos there is as much chance of that happening than Owen being fit all seaon.

[KaKa]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

Your argument stinks ...

[Unbelievable]

The Milner quotes are on Newcastle World if people still dont believe that the proffessionals reckon Owen played a big big part in our goal vs Sunderland.

 

I don't care what Milner says. It was a bad pass that turned into a fluke goal through shambolic defending. We were very fortunate because otherwise we would have lost to the Mackems, but that goal did not merit for any of our players to be lauded.. Owen has played piss poor for us since the start of the season. Most of the squad has to be fair, but a player of his proclaimed quality should be able to do better than that. I am frustrated mostly by some very soft misses in one on one situations. Some from outside of the box when he lacked the pace to take it into the box free from the last defender and some from inside of the box that an instinctive finisher as he really should have scored.. Martins has been hit and miss as well to be fair, but he isn't being picked regardless of form and you could even argue Sam's man management has been suspect on occasions where he has put Martins on the bench in favour of Owen after some good Martins performances. A world class player should be able to make the team play better. Owen is a good player and happens to be a top finisher when top fit, but when not fully fit and not put goals on a golden plate he's about as much use to us as a Petr Cech behind a Sunday league pub team's defence.

[James]

Thing is you wont get a fit Owen for a season. if I had to bet everything I owned in the summer on who would score more goals this season my money would have been on Martins, purely for the fact he is likely to play more games due to Owen being a crock.

 

And I would not disagree with that.

 

However, I know its not very popular on here, but Allardyce likes to play with averages and so do I. Sometimes the odds dont pay, but we are more likely to get the goal with Owen than with Martins when both are fit.

 

Thus I would always pick Owen if I had to choose for a single 90 minute match.

[Cajun]

Thing is you wont get a fit Owen for a season. if I had to bet everything I owned in the summer on who would score more goals this season my money would have been on Martins, purely for the fact he is likely to play more games due to Owen being a crock.

 

And I would not disagree with that.

 

However, I know its not very popular on here, but Allardyce likes to play with averages and so do I. Sometimes the odds dont pay, but we are more likely to get the goal with Owen than with Martins when both are fit.

 

Thus I would always pick Owen if I had to choose for a single 90 minute match.

 

I don't think its the Owen over Martins thing that people disagree with its the "If Owen didn't play this game we wouldn't have scored" with examples which I think most people are questioning.

 

Fair enough if you think Owen is a better finisher but you can't claim we wouldn't have scored etc if Martins hadn't played because we just don't know. That said I bet Martins goal to 90min ratio is pretty close to 1 in 2 for us.

[Unbelievable]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

My point exactly.. Besides, if a player would `only` contribute by scoring, he would have to score a hell of a lot more than Owen ever did. Van Nistelrooij is a good example. He will not create too much himself, but over the course of his career has consistently scored almost twice as many goals as Owen. We are playing Rolls Royce wages for a very untrustworthy Jaguar (sorry NE5 )..

[Cajun]

Its why I have always argued that Owen isn't world class. He is a world class finisher but world class players do more for the team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But lets not get into all that again... 

[KaKa]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

My point exactly.. Besides, if a player would `only` contribute by scoring, he would have to score a hell of a lot more than Owen ever did. Van Nistelrooij is a good example. He will not create too much himself, but over the course of his career has consistently scored almost twice as many goals as Owen. We are playing Rolls Royce wages for a very untrustworthy Jaguar (sorry NE5 )..

 

Matter of fact Owen is only a great finisher inside the box. Outside of it he isn't a threat as his shots from outside the box are rather pathetic. I'm really not sure he would score more goals than martins at themoment at all.

[James]

Thing is you wont get a fit Owen for a season. if I had to bet everything I owned in the summer on who would score more goals this season my money would have been on Martins, purely for the fact he is likely to play more games due to Owen being a crock.

 

And I would not disagree with that.

 

However, I know its not very popular on here, but Allardyce likes to play with averages and so do I. Sometimes the odds dont pay, but we are more likely to get the goal with Owen than with Martins when both are fit.

 

Thus I would always pick Owen if I had to choose for a single 90 minute match.

 

I don't think its the Owen over Martins thing that people disagree with its the "If Owen didn't play this game we wouldn't have scored" with examples which I think most people are questioning.

 

My initial post was a response to the comments that Martins would have done everything Owen did for us this season plus even more.

 

If you reread my post, its not referring to nothing happenning against Sunderland if Martins was on the pitch for the whole game instead of Owen, but rather if Martins was in Owen's place for the one move leading upto the goal.

 

I'm merely pointing out that Owen has made a contribution that other players at our disposal probably (not definitely, I never said something would definitely happen or not happen, people are putting words into my mouth here) would not have made.

 

One of the reasons we have been shit post Shearer is that we've had no-one attacking the ball in the area. Owen is one person likely to do that, but fitness has kept him away from that role.

 

We'll probably have to sign someone, no-one at our disposal is the answer. If we can get someone who can hold the ball up and attack the ball, we can partner him with Martins, otherwise, this player would need to play with Viduka and Martins must stay on the bench.

[James]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

My point exactly.. Besides, if a player would `only` contribute by scoring, he would have to score a hell of a lot more than Owen ever did. Van Nistelrooij is a good example. He will not create too much himself, but over the course of his career has consistently scored almost twice as many goals as Owen. We are playing Rolls Royce wages for a very untrustworthy Jaguar (sorry NE5 )..

 

Matter of fact Owen is only a great finisher inside the box. Outside of it he isn't a threat as his shots from outside the box are rather pathetic. I'm really not sure he would score more goals than martins at themoment at all.

 

I think you'll find that most good teams score most of their goals from inside the box. Long range finishing is a useful ability but should never ever be put ahead of finishing from inside the area.

[James]

I don't care what Milner says. It was a bad pass that turned into a fluke goal through shambolic defending.

 

Yes, lets ignore what the the professional player says. Lets ignore the decent manager who picks the team.

 

After all, you really know more than they do.

[KaKa]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

My point exactly.. Besides, if a player would `only` contribute by scoring, he would have to score a hell of a lot more than Owen ever did. Van Nistelrooij is a good example. He will not create too much himself, but over the course of his career has consistently scored almost twice as many goals as Owen. We are playing Rolls Royce wages for a very untrustworthy Jaguar (sorry NE5 )..

 

Matter of fact Owen is only a great finisher inside the box. Outside of it he isn't a threat as his shots from outside the box are rather pathetic. I'm really not sure he would score more goals than martins at themoment at all.

 

I think you'll find that most good teams score most of their goals from inside the box. Long range finishing is a useful ability but should never ever be put ahead of finishing from inside the area.

 

I'd rather have someone who could do both as Martins does.

[James]

Well considering Martins scored goals last season in what was a far worse team, I would argue that he would score even more in a better team. If Owen only scores given perfect opportunities and martins scores some of these as well as from nothing I could argue Martins scores more out of the two at the moment.

 

My point exactly.. Besides, if a player would `only` contribute by scoring, he would have to score a hell of a lot more than Owen ever did. Van Nistelrooij is a good example. He will not create too much himself, but over the course of his career has consistently scored almost twice as many goals as Owen. We are playing Rolls Royce wages for a very untrustworthy Jaguar (sorry NE5 )..

 

Matter of fact Owen is only a great finisher inside the box. Outside of it he isn't a threat as his shots from outside the box are rather pathetic. I'm really not sure he would score more goals than martins at themoment at all.

 

I think you'll find that most good teams score most of their goals from inside the box. Long range finishing is a useful ability but should never ever be put ahead of finishing from inside the area.

 

I'd rather have someone who could do both as Martins does.

 

Martins is below average inside the area as he doesn't attack the ball. It can be taught, but until that happens there are so many better players in that department.

[Unbelievable]

I don't care what Milner says. It was a bad pass that turned into a fluke goal through shambolic defending.

 

Yes, lets ignore what the the professional player says. Lets ignore the decent manager who picks the team.

 

After all, you really know more than they do.

 

So what´s your take on that goal? Was it a shot, in which case what´s Owen got to do with it? Was it a pass, in which case it was either a bad pass or Owen didn´t have the pace to get to it? I agree Gordon probably positioned himself for the way our strikers were set up, but you could argue that everybody inside the box at the time of the pass/shot had an effect on the goal. The only noteworty thing Owen did in the Sunderland match was make a good run on a Harper long ball and miss a chance he could/should (?) have scored for a player of his stature..

[KaKa]

I don't care what Milner says. It was a bad pass that turned into a fluke goal through shambolic defending.

 

Yes, lets ignore what the the professional player says. Lets ignore the decent manager who picks the team.

 

After all, you really know more than they do.

 

So what´s your take on that goal? Was it a shot, in which case what´s Owen got to do with it? Was it a pass, in which case it was either a bad pass or Owen didn´t have the pace to get to it? I agree Gordon probably positioned himself for the way our strikers were set up, but you could argue that everybody inside the box at the time of the pass/shot had an effect on the goal. The only noteworty thing Owen did in the Sunderland match was make a good run on a Harper long ball and miss a chance he could/should (?) have scored for a player of his stature..

 

In regards to that Owen chance once he had to shift it onto his left foot the chance was gone ... because our world class striker has no left foot!

 

Martins would have hammered it ... might have ended up in row Z but he would have hit it and not passed it to their goalie and it would have had a better chance of going in.

[James]

I don't care what Milner says. It was a bad pass that turned into a fluke goal through shambolic defending.

 

Yes, lets ignore what the the professional player says. Lets ignore the decent manager who picks the team.

 

After all, you really know more than they do.

 

So what´s your take on that goal? Was it a shot, in which case what´s Owen got to do with it? Was it a pass, in which case it was either a bad pass or Owen didn´t have the pace to get to it? I agree Gordon probably positioned himself for the way our strikers were set up, but you could argue that everybody inside the box at the time of the pass/shot had an effect on the goal. The only noteworty thing Owen did in the Sunderland match was make a good run on a Harper long ball and miss a chance he could/should (?) have scored for a player of his stature..

 

As Milner says, and I had said myself before his World Interview, Owen made a very good diagonal run in front of the defenders to the near post which brought Gordon to the near post to make a save, and also brought two defenders towards Owen.

 

Had Owen not made that run, Gordon would not have been so close to the near post, so would have dived outwards to catch the cross, and if he missed, one of the two defenders might have been in a position to clear the ball off the line.

 

Other strikers wouldn't have made that run, or wouldnt have got in front of Sunderland's defence. In that situation, Martins usually stands on the penalty spot.

 

The bit in bold though shows that you don't have much football knowledge to be honest.

 

Milner played a good ball in the box, it was a ball with good odds, he wasn't aiming for anything specific, but he would have known that the likeliest possibilities from that ball were:

 

a) A corner

b) A goal by a team mate attacking the goal

c) An own goal

d) A clearance off the line

e) A goal for Milner

f) Everyone misses

 

It is extremely stupid to think that it was a bad pass - players dont specifically aim for another player, they take a chance and try to find the area most likely to yield an outcome, and Milner did just that.

 

It is just as stupid to accuse Owen of missing the cross through lack of pace. Owen doesn't know exactly where the ball is going to be delivered, he gambles and takes a chance, but always attacks the goal with his run.

 

Keep playing balls into the right area, and have attackers gambling by attacking the six yard line, and we will score more than if we dont gamble. If one move doesn't pay off, it is not a bad pass or a slow run, its probability. Thus Milner and Owen did what was needed of them, andwe scored. Now we need to work on getting more opportunities for putting those kind of balls into the box.

 

Martins just doesn't gamble. He hovers and waits for a perfect ball which is never going to happen. As Shearer said last season, he will never be a good striker if he never learns to gamble.

 

If we cant rely on Owen, we'll need to find someone else to attack the ball in the box.